I was minimalist before it was cool. Back in 1999 I switched to training in nothing but racing flats (the closest to a zero drop you could get). Started with an Asics DS Racer. Ran lot of miles in the Brooks T3 and a throwback Nike Waffle Racer. Crazy they said I was, injured they said I would get. Neither occurred.....I was already crazy...
Alan
Drop is important wrote:
Hey when your calves blow up! Let me know
Those 0 drop and low drop shoes are silly.
Nothing wrong with rolling heal to toe and 11mm drop... i have been adding shims to increase drop to about 11-15mm...
The more drop the better... unless your on the track clicking off miles I wouldn't get rid of the drop.
I've been doing it for 8 years with plenty of 100 mile weeks and my calves have still not blown up. Did a 20 miler and three 15 mile runs this past week and I'm walking around like normal. It may not work for you but it's just fine for plenty of people. To me, shoes with a big "heal" are silly. When I wore them I was constantly plagued with niggling injuries including PF, which I no longer have to worry about. I only wear xc flats whether I'm running on the road, trails or on the track. You should try low/zero drop shoes for when "your" off of the track and see how they work for you.
Tylenol and foam roller are ready for what exactly?I thought you were "used to a barefoot platform?"Guess not.0/10
Zero Drop wrote:
I am used to a barefoot platform. In a moment of inspiration, I just grabbed on older pair of mid-drop shoes out of the purgatory bin, took a serrated knife, and shaved the rubber outsole off of the heel. They are close to zero drop now, and possibly negative drop.
I took them outside to jog a block just now, and they feel great. Looking forward to my run tomorrow.
Tylenol and foam roller are ready.
Expectations? Experience?
Drop is important wrote:
Hey when your calves blow up! Let me know
Those 0 drop and low drop shoes are silly.
Nothing wrong with rolling heal to toe and 11mm drop... i have been adding shims to increase drop to about 11-15mm...
The more drop the better... unless your on the track clicking off miles I wouldn't get rid of the drop.
I think you mean heel lift not drop.
If you're actually using a 1/2 inch drop, then your heels are much lower than the OP's.
Runningart2004 wrote:
blah blah
Alan
Why do you always put your name at the end of your posts.
Are you really that needy and starved for attention.
1999 is just an ignorant little boy who thinks he knows everything.
Again the drop/lift whatever the term i like the classic large heal in a shoe...I'm guessing 12mmo or more. I've never actually measured it.
Obviously we're talking about a shoe with a classic platform versus one that is flat...I'm more once a runner than born to run.
My guess is Quentin trained barefoot sometimes but did his mileage with at least 12mm:)
I am sure there are runners that benefit from both... I can't train for a marathon without a heal lift... my calves blow up. After about 10 miles into my run....i need to roll heal to toe to preserve my legs. I've tried both and for me a nice shim added to my insole helps keep me rolling smoother and faster later in a long run...
the bigger the drop the better... it feels awkward at first ...but late in the run it feels amazing...
I'm not super fast but run around 5:45 mile pace heal striking and rolling heal to toe for a marathon... it feels almost like race walking technique...it's different than running 5k-10k stuff where your flying ...after 13 miles I'm not flying anymore and need a smooth transition...the heal lift helps be relax and just roll. My calves seem to get way less stress.
I can run in flat shoes for 10 miles after that I'm screwed...
Dropmatters wrote:
Again the drop/lift whatever the term i like the classic large heal in a shoe...I'm guessing 12mmo or more. I've never actually measured it.
A drop means your heels (not heals) are dropped lower than level. A lift means your heels (not heals) are higher than level.
Your calves blow up when you use less than a 1/2 inch heel lift, because you've been using heel lifts for so long that the ligaments and tendons in your calves have shortened to such an extent that you can no longer walk and run easily from a neutral position without your calves getting tight.
HRE wrote:
So you're just having the midsole hitting the ground? Isn't that material fairly flimsy and likely to grind down very quickly? Do you still get decent traction? And how did you manage to shave exactly the same amount of material from each shoe? Or is one a bit higher than the other now?
Yes, exposed midsole in the heel, but 1. Lots of lightweight shoes do that these days, and 2. It isn't hitting the ground FIRST. Not too flimsy in the models that the midsole is designed to be exposed, but I am interested to find that out myself. Traction hasn't been a problem on 2 (dry) runs. I eyeballed it, but it appears very close. I would be more worried about it if it were hitting the ground first, but so far, so good!
In the 1980s the great Gordon Pirie asked some of the runners he was coaching to cut the heels off their shoes. I know a couple guys who ran 10k PRs after that.
Drop is important wrote:
Hey when your calves blow up! Let me know
Those 0 drop and low drop shoes are silly.
Nothing wrong with rolling heal to toe and 11mm drop... i have been adding shims to increase drop to about 11-15mm...
The more drop the better... unless your on the track clicking off miles I wouldn't get rid of the drop.
I have been barefoot running for nearly a decade now. I have never been faster or healthier. Non-issue.
500 wrote:
It is interesting to read about your experimentation… Thank you…
A few questions:
1) What model(s) shoe did you do this on?
2) What was it about the shoes that led you to decide they were worn out in the first place?
3) How much did you cut off (i.e. the thickness you removed at the heel?
4) How far back from the front of the she did you begin removing material? I assume you then removed a straight, tapered wedge of midsole?
5) What is your main goal for this? Encouraging a fore/mid-foot strike?
It will be interesting to have updates on your experiences.
1. Newton Gravity IV (Superman colors)
2. They aren't particularly worn out (probably half a shoe life left); I just realized that I wasn't wearing them anymore (because of the heel stack... only 6-8mm, but I am used to zero drop, so...), and then I was gifted a new pair of shoes, so once I realized I may NEVER wear them again, I decided to preform surgery.
3. The outer rubber sole plus a few mm. Not sure tbh. Very unscientific, but since I land pretty consistently on my mid foot, I wasn't too worried about it.
4. Yes, as best as I could, a tapered wedge, and it covers the rear 40-45% of the heel of the shoe.
5. Encouraging a midfoot strike while protecting my feet while running at night. Most zero drop shoes don't offer much protection, and I just didn't like the feel of Hokas or Altras.
Thanks! I will update after a week or two... Two runs and 15 miles in, no complaints!
White lies wrote:
Tylenol and foam roller are ready for what exactly?
I thought you were "used to a barefoot platform?"
Guess not.
0/10
Zero Drop wrote:I am used to a barefoot platform. In a moment of inspiration, I just grabbed on older pair of mid-drop shoes out of the purgatory bin, took a serrated knife, and shaved the rubber outsole off of the heel. They are close to zero drop now, and possibly negative drop.
I took them outside to jog a block just now, and they feel great. Looking forward to my run tomorrow.
Tylenol and foam roller are ready.
Expectations? Experience?
In case I accidentally made a "negative drop" shoe. I actually may have, but I kinda like it.
Be kind.
Was your "moment of inspiration" an Anton Krupicka video?
Eleven wrote:
Was your "moment of inspiration" an Anton Krupicka video?
lol, nope, not familiar with that one.
Pics
We're all an experiment of 1, and what works for others may or may not work for you, but you won't know until you try. If I could offer one piece of advice, that would be to take a very gradual approach to any significant change. Good luck!
A drop means your heels (not heals) are dropped lower than level. A lift means your heels (not heals) are higher than level.
Wrong.
Drop is defined as the height difference from heel to midfoot, measured in mm. A positive drop means the heel is higher. Shoe manufacturers do not use the term "lift". That is used in certain women's apparel.
You can look it up wrote:
A drop means your heels (not heals) are dropped lower than level. A lift means your heels (not heals) are higher than level.
Wrong.
Drop is defined as the height difference from heel to midfoot, measured in mm. A positive drop means the heel is higher. Shoe manufacturers do not use the term "lift". That is used in certain women's apparel.
"Look it up" is correct.
What I am NOT sure of is what to call it when the heal(sic) is LOWER than the mid foot. I got made fun of for calling it a "negative drop", but I cannot think of anything better to call it...
Zero Drop wrote:
You can look it up wrote:Wrong.
Drop is defined as the height difference from heel to midfoot, measured in mm. A positive drop means the heel is higher. Shoe manufacturers do not use the term "lift". That is used in certain women's apparel.
"Look it up" is correct.
What I am NOT sure of is what to call it when the heal(sic) is LOWER than the mid foot. I got made fun of for calling it a "negative drop", but I cannot think of anything better to call it...
A reverse drop. Many spikes actually use this because it allows you to run faster.
Genius wrote:
A drop means your heels (not heals) are dropped lower than level. A lift means your heels (not heals) are higher than level.
Dummy wrote:Wrong.
Drop is defined as the height difference from heel to midfoot, measured in mm. A positive drop means the heel is higher. Shoe manufacturers do not use the term "lift". That is used in certain women's apparel.
What you wrote is a bunch of nonsensical rubbish.
This is not rocket science. Read my previous explanation.