people really recommend squats and deadlifts? I'm pretty fast and have never done them

Runningart2004 wrote:

A couple things...

I'm not 200lbs....

500 pounds then. Whatever.

The point is that anyone spouting off about weights is in the wrong forum.

If you want to run, then run.

If you want to spout out about nonsense and be lazy, lift weights.

Here is something that may surprise you. It is not really necessary to lift heavy weights to get the same gains in muscle mass and muscle fiber size that you can get with lighter weights. Yes, you can get identical strength and size gains from lifting lighter weights that you can get with lifting much heavier.

Wrong. Your strength gains will be less using lighter weights.You are a total moron. You should enjoy it here on this thread.

Debbie Dddddd wrote:

Here is something that may surprise you. It is not really necessary to lift heavy weights to get the same gains in muscle mass and muscle fiber size that you can get with lighter weights. Yes, you can get identical strength and size gains from lifting lighter weights that you can get with lifting much heavier.

Runningart2004 wrote:

But studies have shown that heavy resistance training improves running economy and performance in trained runners. Studies also have shown plyometrics improves running economy and performance in trained runners.

They are both in the same wheel house. Each contributes to the performance of the other.

It would also be negligent to solely focus on squatting/lunging without balancing it with a hip hinging movement.

And if the improvement in running economy is due to neuromuscular adaptations the best exercise to use is the deadlift.

The biggest issue with the deadlift is the recovery and fatigue vs the squat.

Alan

Well done.

BOTH weight training and plyometrics can improve running economy/efficiency. Altitude training can also improve running economy.

Many people think just like you...and me.

They do not post at this forum.

You can easily see why they do not post at this forum.

Hey you LRC idiot. Go f off. wrote:

Wrong. Your strength gains will be less using lighter weights.

You are a total moron. You should enjoy it here on this thread.

Debbie Dddddd wrote:

Here is something that may surprise you. It is not really necessary to lift heavy weights to get the same gains in muscle mass and muscle fiber size that you can get with lighter weights. Yes, you can get identical strength and size gains from lifting lighter weights that you can get with lifting much heavier.

Actually, Men's Fitness just had an article citing a recent research study that started exactly.

Stated exactly that. A Canadian University found equal gains in strength and muscle mass between 2 test groups - one lifting heavier and the other doing lighter but more reps.

Your sources stated that explosive training or heavy weight training can improve economy. If you use plyometrics you don't need heavy strength training. You don't necessarily need both. If one does not want to risk injuries by training heavy then train with lighter weights and do explosive training.

There are many ways to skin a cat.

Hey you LRC idiot. Go f off. wrote:

Wrong. Your strength gains will be less using lighter weights.

The strongest runners are lighter, so you're the one who's the moron.

Heavy people are weak in the distance events.

Most injuries will come from volume and more specifically lifting heavy volume while fatigued.

People saying that a lot of inuries happen from heavy weight have no clue what they are talking about, have never lifted themselves nor have trained anyone in the weight room.

Don't be scared of the weight. Lift properly and you won't get hurt.

I work with folks who workout everyday. 99% of their injuries come from running, or excessive volume of body weight exercises.

You're ten times more likely to get injured running than lifting.

Also, if you're going to do plyos but not also lifting you are doing yourself a disservice. Lifting will make your plyos more productive. Plyos can also be dangerous and could lead to injury without some basic strength first.

But what do I know. I'm sure all the 22 yr old exercise science fitness experts on LR know better. Farah and Rupp lift heavy but y'all still have your heads in the sand.

Yes, 99% of your performance improvement is going to come from running. But it's that extra 1% in which extra stuff such as lifting lives.

Alan

Not true. Numerous injuries from weightlifting. I ran D1 and trained with guy who finished 7th in Mr Olympia ( now in prison for murder). So I have actual experience in both.

Alan, I was mentioning the study posted. It seems to me based on the studies cited that one could get away with more moderate weight training combining plyometrics.

I'm not questioning your knowledge and will state again that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

To paraphrase Joe Kenn the athlete has to buy in. The ultimate difference between an athlete and a lifter is when you train an athlete you have to know when enough is enough. There are too many other traits you have to develop.

Worrying about form or just worrying about lifting heavy might not be worth it.

Coach wrote:

Alan, I was mentioning the study posted. It seems to me based on the studies cited that one could get away with more moderate weight training combining plyometrics.

I'm not questioning your knowledge and will state again that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

To paraphrase Joe Kenn the athlete has to buy in. The ultimate difference between an athlete and a lifter is when you train an athlete you have to know when enough is enough. There are too many other traits you have to develop.

Worrying about form or just worrying about lifting heavy might not be worth it.

Yeah. You are right.

There is too much stuff... for you to worry about.

Oh yea.

Wasn't really aiming my post at you Coach. You seem to be rather receptive of weight training/plyos.

Ultimately it's a balancing act. How much time do you have to train? If you have 30-45 minutes twice a week in the gym what's the best use of my time? How is the resistance training going to effect my recovery?

In my experience soreness and fatigue have come from exercises using more volume and range of motion. Lunges, burpees, box jumps, and similar work always leads to more soreness than lifting. 10-15 rep sets have always led to more soreness than 3-5 rep sets. The day after a 3-5 rep set of squats or deadlifts I feel fine. The day after 3-4 sets of 10-15 I'm hammered.

Alan

Wasn't really aiming my post at you Coach. You seem to be rather receptive of weight training/plyos.

Ultimately it's a balancing act. How much time do you have to train? If you have 30-45 minutes twice a week in the gym what's the best use of my time? How is the resistance training going to effect my recovery?

In my experience soreness and fatigue have come from exercises using more volume and range of motion. Lunges, burpees, box jumps, and similar work always leads to more soreness than lifting. 10-15 rep sets have always led to more soreness than 3-5 rep sets. The day after a 3-5 rep set of squats or deadlifts I feel fine. The day after 3-4 sets of 10-15 I'm hammered.

Alan

An athlete can be a lifter, but a lifter doesn't have to be an athlete.

Part of my job is training tactical athletes. They need a combination of strength, speed, agility and endurance. But there's no "game" to train for. There's a unique balance between strength and endurance.

Alan

This is one of the most absurdly asinine posts I have read on this forum? I hope with all my heart that you are trolling. There is no way, NO WAY, that you have ever had anything to do with any halfway decent runners.

The article you present doesn't even touch on what type of strength training is best. Keeping strength training as simple and motivating as possible is most important. A runner doing 70 miles a week doesn't need to focus on proper squat or power clean form or whether that soreness in the back might compel him to take another recovery day before a hard running workout. Runners need to focus on running, jumpers jumping, throwers need to throw and lifters need to focus on lifting.

Runningart2004 wrote:

An athlete can be a lifter, but a lifter doesn't have to be an athlete.

Part of my job is training tactical athletes. They need a combination of strength, speed, agility and endurance. But there's no "game" to train for. There's a unique balance between strength and endurance.

Alan

Exactly! Your posts belong on a crossfit forum

Alan, I agree completely with your last two posts.