How do UK/USA women go sub 4 If Russian Women need to Dope to do it?

“Nonetheless, he brought joy to the world – to win the Tour de France seven years in-a-row was a wonderful achievement. Think of the time, dedication and training he had to put in.“From a moral and ethical point of view, I deplore athletes who take drugs.“However, it is well documented that his Tour de France competitors also took drugs. Lance stuck to his guns when the accusations were flying around about him…the fact is, he never tested positive.

http://www.limerickpost.ie/2012/08/30/hartmann-stands-by-armstrong/

fred.

I heard a rumor that you are boring.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27154828

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23317577

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26853157

Oh well.

thats an easy one.most ,if not all,of the usa and uk sub 4 minute women were/are on a drug program as well.if russians,who work harder than anyone, need to take drugs to run sub 4,or even close to 4,chances are,everyone else has to,as well.it might be said that uk,and us women might be more naturally talented,but i think thats unlikely.

Americans can train harder than Russians because they have American values of hard work and working hard. Russians are communists who believe in not working and getting everything for free.

Just because the Russians were doped doesn't mean they need dope to run sub 4. As we all know, dope has no effect on elite athletes.

I guess you haven't met a lot of Eastern Europeans. They take "shortcuts" in every area of life.

Frank Marshall Davis wrote:

I guess you haven't met a lot of Eastern Europeans. They take "shortcuts" in every area of life.

Americans don't? Right.

We need a little Coach Canova logic.

If they were actually internationally elite capable, the drugs don't work. These drug takers are weak minded.

If you were born and raised in high altitude in one very specific part of the world, and no others, then you have genetically distinct capabilities to do well in endurance sports.

Anyone want to discuss how, theoretically, the good guys (pick your favorite country) could possibly train harder than dopers without PEDs?

Every national federation delivering many elite international performances has a drug program. Maybe the drug program is as simple as burying positives, but make no mistake, the federations are okay with PEDs.

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

Every national federation delivering many elite international performances has a drug program. Maybe the drug program is as simple as burying positives, but make no mistake, the federations are okay with PEDs.

no proof of this whatsoever and would require a massive conspiracy of thousands of people with no whistleblowers turning up, but whatever

Frank Marshall Davis wrote:

I guess you haven't met a lot of Eastern Europeans. They take "shortcuts" in every area of life.

We're overrun with Eastern Europeans, why do you think we just voted to leave the EU other than to regain control of immigration?

The national federations occasionally speak against PED's but it is often the bare minimum. It's clear why: they typically measure their own success and requests for funding by how many OG and WC medals "they" have won for the country. So as long as most of the rest of the world is doping, there is no point in them speaking out and counting 5th place finishes as moral victories. They see PED usage as leveling the playing field and are happy to look the other way as long as the athletes aren't blatantly stupid and fail tests.

I'm not the biggest fan of all of our coaches, but honestly I doubt there are any Russian coaches on a par with Alberto, Wetmore or Schumacher. If they did, they would have at least a few decent elite male runners.

All Together Now! wrote:

I'm not the biggest fan of all of our coaches, but honestly I doubt there are any Russian coaches on a par with Alberto, Wetmore or Schumacher. If they did, they would have at least a few decent elite male runners.

Who does America have on the male side who can run sub 3:30. For 2015 there is only one on 3:30 then next best 3:33.

The Russian coaches might have juided there athletes but they also trained their athletes well.

You have a point though as if you know you are not going to get tested steroids are going to be the easy way to go

only the women get juiced,men don't matter

all you do is train hard when you're juiced to the eyeball,no need for coaching

ukathleticscoach wrote:

How do UK/USA women go sub 4 for 1500m If Russian Women need to Dope to do it?

You act as if all Russians were as doped as the E. Africans. Please. Go speak with Jos Hermens, Aden, Rosa, or even Canova about their doping protocols.

agip wrote:

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

Every national federation delivering many elite international performances has a drug program. Maybe the drug program is as simple as burying positives, but make no mistake, the federations are okay with PEDs.

no proof of this whatsoever and would require a massive conspiracy of thousands of people with no whistleblowers turning up, but whatever

Yes, and what happens in Russia was/is the result of a single VERY busy person.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Americans can train harder than Russians because they have American values of hard work and working hard. Russians are communists who believe in not working and getting everything for free.

Very interesting analysis by Bad Malcolm once again.

I noticed that the values of 'hard work' and 'working hard' were yelled at everyone by "The Donald-Winner-Antichrist-Great-Wall-Of-Trump" tonight.

Ivanka had already told us that "Our Father" had won the "competition" with the other "competitors" during the Republican debate game show.

That game show was the official start to the Apocalypse.

We are in the Apocalypse process now.

Relax and focus on your breathing.

agip wrote:

no proof of this whatsoever and would require a massive conspiracy of thousands of people with no whistleblowers turning up, but whatever

Well, that the US covered up over hundred doping tests did come out, but much later. So we might learn what happened ten years ago in ten years from now.

Do you think that's better now? Based on what observations? The stats don't show it imho. Doping coaches are still coaching our national teams, convicted drug cheats are still sent to the Olympics, and Nike is still sponsoring them. So we aren't vehemently opposed to dopers.

Remember that during the Cold War, we had well-documented state-sponsored doping in the Soviet Union and East Germany, and well-documented tolerated + encouraged doping in the US and West Germany. Don't know about the UK back then.

As a consequence, the Soviet Union and East Germany clearly outperformed the US and West Germany. Coincidence? I think not.

Now, we have well-documented state-sponsored doping in Russia, and what is happening in the US and Germany and UK? The US clearly outperformed Russia at the last summer Olympics, and the UK had fewer medals overall but more gold medals than Russia, despite being much smaller.

Last (Summer) Olympics before the Fall of the Iron Curtain:

Country: number of all medals

Soviet Union: 132

East Germany: 102

United States: 94

West Germany: 40

...

Great Britain: 24

Most recent (Summer) Olympics:

United States: 103

China: 88

Russia: 79

Great Britain: 65 (but more gold medals than Russia)

Germany: 44

Or look at the relative changes in total medal count from 1988 to 2012:

Great Britain: +170%

United States: +10%

Germany: +10% relative to the West and -70% relative to West + East

Russia: -40% relative to the Soviet Union

Note the population changes. Soviet Union, 1988: 280 million; Russia, 2012: 140 million.

Also roughly West Germany 60 million, East Germany 20 million, UK 60 million.

Factoring in these numbers, the performances of Russia and the US barely changed between 1988 and 2012, while Germany dropped a lot, and the UK went up crazy. (East) Germany's example shows how advantageous systematic doping is, the performances of Russia and the US imply that nothing has changed compared to '88, and the UK, well, apparently they were clean(er) in 88 and dirty (dirtier) in 2012, and also dirtier (more successful) than Russia in 2012.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

How do UK/USA women go sub 4 for 1500m If Russian Women need to Dope to do it?

Because they aren't Russian.

While he number would have increased, every host nation sees a spike in their medal count during that Olympics.