William and Mary Head Coach GONE

1) I never contacted a coach when my daughter was looking to run in college, and I have not and will not do so when my son enters the recruiting process either. I understand the role of parent here.

2) Most parents still have a strong influence on their children, and their input will be huge when it comes to making a decision. College coaches, even D1 coaches, need to keep this in mind. Many college football coaches understand this.

3) I do not need nor want any coach or team to make my kid feel wanted. That was a comment in general to coaches and teams and their failures, not about what I need or want. Go back and read...I said if they want the "best of the best" they need to do that.

4) I do not need to learn patience and control. I already have that. My kids pick the colleges they want to attend, and when they want advice from me, they ask and I give, but the bottom line is they are going to those colleges, so they get to decide where to go, assuming the finances work out.

5) I know of the sites you provided. Still not as good as what many schools do which is to write bios with times right there with the link to the athlete page from the roster. That's the way it should be done. Shows pride in the program, shows a team isn't afraid to show how their athletes do. Recruits should not have to go to another website to find the info they want. Why? Suppose a kid is interested in certain colleges. What if he's from Tennessee and is interested that there are some colleges outside of Tennessee with lots of athletes from Tennessee...this is one reason to look at the rosters...should be a one-stop shop.

6) Regarding research on my own, the very first post I made showed evidence that I have done my own research (son too). That's how I know what the shortfalls are. Any coach without a great website that has all the types of information a recruit would want without giving away any training info...well, they aren't doing as good a job as they should. The head coach, the recruiting coordinator, an assistant, someone needs to make that happen.

ex d1 coach wrote:

If you think the average D1 wants to deal with you or your kid, you are crazy. Way too high maintenance.

Your kid is probably a bit like you - full of demands. You are going to turn down a scholarship because the website doesn't look good? My god.

What does Bowerman track club website look like? NJ NY track club|?

Who the **** cares.

I'm dead serious. Your kid won't go to a school because the website sucks? Why don't you ask the coach who he's coached and how much they have improved.

The coach is there to coach. If he's a good coach he a) likely doesn't know anyting about computer programming and b) has nothing to do with it.

You are not understanding at all, I mean not at all. I didn't say any of the things you are assuming.

1) My criticisms of those teams and their websites won't make ME or my kid decide to cross them off the list, but it WILL for some out there, and if you think not, then you don't know what you're talking about. Those runners at Brooks PR or New Balance Nationals have lots of options open to them, and the better the welcome mat, the greater the chance they might attend there. I know how to look past all that and get the info I want and need, but those of us in the Flagpole household are organized and determined and not afraid of work, so that's not an issue for us.

2) Coaches can do WAY better in their recruiting process if they just spend a little more time.

3) Good coaches do more than just coach. They need to run a program, and that includes excellent recruiting and polish on the program. Why should a recruit have to ask a coach how his or her athletes have done? That is incomplete with hand-picked answers. They should scream that from the rooftops on their team's web site. If your antique coach from the 1970s doesn't know how to contact the sports information department at the school to get this kind of info up on the web site, then they need to find another line of work.

A coach should want their first impression of their program and team (typically the web site unless they are from Stanford or Oregon or a couple of other school) to be a beacon that attracts the best high school athletes in the country and world.

8FE wrote:

Flagpole, you are 100% correct with very valid points.

Guys, take a look at the Univ. of Alabama's Football page if you want to learn about real recruiting and how to build a dynasty by catering to the kids and making it about THEM and their athletes. Goes a long way.

You are correct, and you give an excellent example of how things should be done.

is this confirmed? haven't seen/heard anything other than this thread

Just a few quick thoughts:

1) On substance, Flagpole is 90% correct. It's called marketing. Yes, there can be administrative hurdles to overcome, etc. but that's just part of the job.

2) On the personal side, I'm a little surprised that so many LR posters know so much about his kids. Come on, guys. Get serious.

3) As several have said, let's focus on the topic of the thread, because it's an important one. And that starts with getting confirmation. Anyone know anything, beyond what you've read here?

4) If it is true, then this is indeed a great opportunity to begin the process of rebuilding a once great program. Let's hope they make some good decisions.

5) Last but not least, the Virginia college running community, and the high school kids who deal with it as potential recruits, do not need Jason Dunn back in our state. I don't post much about individual people on here, but have to make an exception in this case.

va coach wrote:

5) Last but not least, the Virginia college running community, and the high school kids who deal with it as potential recruits, do not need Jason Dunn back in our state. I don't post much about individual people on here, but have to make an exception in this case.

Hmmmm I'm new around here but I thought that Dunn was a great coach... what did he do to make you feel so strongly?

I wonder if William & Mary alum Sean Graham could be in contention for the job. He's currently the (a?) distance coach at Kentucky.

Whoever it is, it really better work. William & Mary's run of 14 straight NCAA appearances (under three different coaches) snapped under Walsh.

W&M needs to clean the slate - Guttridge and Solinsky should not be kept or even considered. They are too close to Walsh and don't have the experience or success to suggest they could return this program to where it was. The program needs someone who has proven they can coach a team and individuals at the highest level, in both track and cross country. Whoever comes in will have their work cut out, here are the 2016 fastest distance / middle distance performances from the W&M site:

800m - 1:53

1500m - 3:46

3000m - 8:18

5000m - 14:38

10000m - 29:59

There doesn't appear to be much depth behind these performances, as the top performer in each event seems to have the next several fastest times. The good news is that all of these performers come back and that the women's team is still in decent shape.

As a former W&M xc runner under Walsh, this is the best news I could ever have heard today. My heart goes out to everyone on still on the team and I am so glad they finally have the opportunity to bring a once-great team back to its former glory.

Nice post except that I am 100% right, not 90% right.

Flagpole wrote:

Nice post except that I am 100% right, not 90% right.

#Blowhards Out

Stick to starting threads soliciting your own financial expertise.

farts wrote:

As a former W&M xc runner under Walsh, this is the best news I could ever have heard today. My heart goes out to everyone on still on the team and I am so glad they finally have the opportunity to bring a once-great team back to its former glory.

I too look forward to seeing this once dominant program return to greatness. With their next track or XC national championship they will have...err...won one track or XC championship. Rhode Island will be so pissed to be equaled.

farts wrote:

As a former W&M xc runner under Walsh, this is the best news I could ever have heard today. My heart goes out to everyone on still on the team and I am so glad they finally have the opportunity to bring a once-great team back to its former glory.

farts,

Perhaps you can confirm or deny - word on the street about William and Mary is that generally speaking, the academics are considered very tough, even for extremely accomplished students. Obviously it is a good school (one of the best state schools in the country), but the general thought is that the academic rigor is much tougher than other schools of its caliber. Whether or not this is true, the perception is there. I wonder if that keeps some stellar athletes from attending.

Flagpole wrote:

farts wrote:

As a former W&M xc runner under Walsh, this is the best news I could ever have heard today. My heart goes out to everyone on still on the team and I am so glad they finally have the opportunity to bring a once-great team back to its former glory.

farts,

Perhaps you can confirm or deny - word on the street about William and Mary is that generally speaking, the academics are considered very tough, even for extremely accomplished students. Obviously it is a good school (one of the best state schools in the country), but the general thought is that the academic rigor is much tougher than other schools of its caliber. Whether or not this is true, the perception is there. I wonder if that keeps some stellar athletes from attending.

Well, first of all the problem is not that we don't recruit stellar athletes. We absolutely do, Walsh just has had no success (or knowledge how to) in developing their talent.

Secondly yes, the academics are difficult at W&M. I can't compare to what it's like at other colleges since I never went to another, but let me just say that it was a huge reality check coming in from being the best of the best in high school and having to adjust to being a very average student at W&M.

What made Walsh so terrible? Was his training bad, or just his manner?

A rather dim poster wrote:

What made Walsh so terrible? Was his training bad, or just his manner?

Walsh has insecurity issues, the reading/writing level of a four year old, and an absurdly low level of even basic scientific principles.

Flagpole wrote:

farts wrote:

As a former W&M xc runner under Walsh, this is the best news I could ever have heard today. My heart goes out to everyone on still on the team and I am so glad they finally have the opportunity to bring a once-great team back to its former glory.

farts,

Perhaps you can confirm or deny - word on the street about William and Mary is that generally speaking, the academics are considered very tough, even for extremely accomplished students. Obviously it is a good school (one of the best state schools in the country), but the general thought is that the academic rigor is much tougher than other schools of its caliber. Whether or not this is true, the perception is there. I wonder if that keeps some stellar athletes from attending.

I went there. Didn't run but rowed. I can confirm that the academics are brutal compared to "comparator" schools, even better regarded schools. My brother went to one of the better Ivies and while he worked hard, I always felt that my peers had a harder workload without the grade inflation. At least when I was there, W&M had a culture of "while we aren't as prestigious as UVA, we work harder and are better educated." The administration wanted to attract "serious" students and there was not an "easy" class really. You mail a paper in, you don't get a C, you get a D or a No Grade/Rewrite. Sadly, this should be a consideration generally, and specifically for anyone interested in professional grad schools as not all grad schools factor this stuff in.

Gibby and Gerard had a period where they were getting a large percentage of the in state talent without even recruiting that hard. The performance of the program recruited itself.

Look at the spike in performance Va Tech has had since Walsh arrived and the number of quality of in-state kids they get.

What blue chip instate guys did Walsh land in his time there?

I would think Gibby would already be in contact unless his departure did not go well but not sure W&M could hold an offer at UMich against him.

It's official!

http://www.tribeathletics.com/news/2016/6/28/mens-cross-country-w-m-director-of-track-and-field-and-cross-country-stephen-walsh-to-resign.aspx