Official Thread to Discuss Boris Berian's Contract

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  • LetsRun.com
    your benevolent dictator
    4 years ago 06/04/2016 3:18pm CDT
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    We've revealed New Balance's contract offer to Berian in this article: http://www.letsrun.com/news/2016/06/find-pro-track-field-runners-make-boris-berians-new-balance-contract-revealed/

    In that article we laid out a few scenarios so you all can discuss how much pros make. The contract says nothing about making appearances on New Balance's behalf etc. Is that all in the long form?

    Scenarios:

    Scenario #1- He keeps running great, PRs, and gets bronze at the Olympics – $227,500 earned in 2016 with bump in salary to $175,000 next two years
    Berian is already off to a tremendously successful start to 2016. He won the NB Indoor Grand Prix ($3000 bonus), USA Indoors ($2000 bonus), World Indoors ($10,000 bonus), the Pre Classic (Diamond League $5000 bonus). So he would have already earned $20,000 in bonuses. If he goes on to win the Olympic Trials ($7,500 bonus), he’ll be up to $27,500. If he PRs along the way ($15,000 bonus) that would almost assure him a US #1 ranking and an extra $10,000 so that would be $52,500 in bonuses. He would dwarf all of that with an extra $50,000 in bonuses with an Olympic bronze and an extra $50,000 in base pay the next two years.
    Scenario #2- Does everything but medal at Olympics – Does all the above but finishes 4th at Olympics instead of 3rd and ends up world ranked #3 – $177,500 in 2016 with $135,000 next two years (3rd vs 4th would cost him $130,000)
    Scenario #3- Successful but not the best -#2 in US indoors ($1000) and out ($5000), US ranked #2 ($5000) no PRs, but 3 ($1000 x 3) top-3s in Diamond League races, #8 world ranking (no bonus because US ranking $ is higher) – $139,000 in 2016 and $127,500 in base pay the next two years
    Scenario #4- Good US runner who doesn’t make Olympics – #4 at Trials ($0), 5th in 2 Diamond League meets ($0) ends up ranked #4 in USA $125,000 in 2016, same base in 2017 and 2018
    Scenario $5 Gets hurt before Trials and is injured for most of 2017 and 2018 but pulls one out of nowhere to make Worlds in 2017 as US #3. He would still make $125,000 this year and in 2017 and 2018 if there are no reductions. He would get a $1000 bonus for finishing 3rd at USAs next year.
  • ojo
    4 years ago 06/04/2016 3:21pm CDT
    re: LetsRun.com
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    Way more money than I thought. This is a guy who hasn't even made a USA final.
  • wqqqqqqqq
    4 years ago 06/04/2016 3:32pm CDT
    re: LetsRun.com
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    I really wish other pros or agents would chime in -- unless contractually obligated not to (check first). 150k for Olympic gold seems low to me, but I have absolutely no context on whether that is actually low.

    Also, do bonuses for events like this scale inversely with the probability of the event? I'd expect them to if people believe in math, but who knows what actually goes on in the real world.
  • Seriously mate?
    4 years ago 06/04/2016 3:36pm CDT
    re: LetsRun.com
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    Does the guy get healthcare, 401k, other benefits?
  • 8FE
    4 years ago 06/04/2016 3:38pm CDT
    re: LetsRun.com
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    Symmonds is going to be pissed.

    He guessed $75k... you know Nick doesn't think Berian is in his league. Which tells me that Nick didn't make anywhere close to $125k/year with Brooks.

    Solid contract for Berian.

    Just sad that Jordan Spieth makes this in half of one major tournament.
  • 8FE
    4 years ago 06/04/2016 3:43pm CDT
    re: 8FE
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    And you mention agents.

    It's interesting that they omitted Hawi's cut... I imagine NB has to kick him at least $25K/year
  • not impressed
    4 years ago 06/04/2016 3:48pm CDT
    re: LetsRun.com
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    Boris has the potential of becoming a HUGE star. Add to that a great story. So I think he's worth more than that. After cuts and reductions he wouldn't have got all that in his pocket anyway.
  • jerry maguire
    4 years ago 06/04/2016 3:58pm CDT
    re: 8FE
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    8FE wrote:

    And you mention agents.

    It's interesting that they omitted Hawi's cut... I imagine NB has to kick him at least $25K/year

    Why would New Balance pay Berian's agent? By that logic they should also pay his massage person, any doctors he needs to see for running matters, and chip in some quarters when Berian buys bags of ice for an ice bath.

    Berian gets his money and then can spend it how he thinks best to help him succeed. For many athletes that involves hiring an agent, who get a cut of the athlete's money, usually 15%. That's why some athletes opt to do it on their own.
  • think about it
    4 years ago 06/04/2016 4:08pm CDT
    re: jerry maguire
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    Bonuses may be low, but the key here is NO REDUCTIONS!!! Less bonus for more guaranteed money. This is common in all sports. Nike likely offers larger bonuses with larger downside risk for the athlete.
  • notrump
    4 years ago 06/04/2016 4:09pm CDT
    re: LetsRun.com
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    Berian's pay is more than the WNBA pays, but a lot less than the total compensation when you include what the top WNBA ladies get paid for competing overseas.
  • Really mate.
    4 years ago 06/04/2016 4:57pm CDT
    re: Seriously mate?
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    Seriously mate? wrote:

    Does the guy get healthcare, 401k, other benefits?

    Contracts do not get those types of benefits. Also, no vacations, no holidays, no weekends off. Only employees get the types of benefits you listed.
  • Really mate.
    4 years ago 06/04/2016 4:58pm CDT
    re: Really mate.
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    **Contractors**
  • Iluvmoney
    4 years ago 06/04/2016 4:59pm CDT
    re: LetsRun.com
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    Much more than I thought.

    Makes me wonder how much allyson felix and the bigger stars are earning.
  • Really mate.
    4 years ago 06/04/2016 5:10pm CDT
    re: Iluvmoney
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    As a contractor you have to pay for many things employees take for granted. $125k you pay agent, buy medical, and fund your own 401k. You also have to pay ~7.5% self-employment tax; the companies part of the social security/medicare contribution.
  • asfsdagds
    4 years ago 06/04/2016 5:12pm CDT
    re: Iluvmoney
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    It seems to me the answer should be very straightforward.

    All they have to do is determine whether there are any New Balance athletes who don't have reductions. If there are, then reductions aren't standard in New Balance contracts.

    If all of New Balance's clients have reductions in their long-form contracts (are there two types of contract?) and not in their short-form contracts, then you'd have to give the benefit of the doubt to Nike.

    Seems simple enough to me, no?
  • asakhbasdhvutf
    4 years ago 06/04/2016 5:16pm CDT
    re: asfsdagds
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    asfsdagds wrote:

    It seems to me the answer should be very straightforward.

    All they have to do is determine whether there are any New Balance athletes who don't have reductions. If there are, then reductions aren't standard in New Balance contracts.

    If all of New Balance's clients have reductions in their long-form contracts (are there two types of contract?) and not in their short-form contracts, then you'd have to give the benefit of the doubt to Nike.

    Seems simple enough to me, no?

    LOL ... sure, Nike would love to get a hold of ALL the NB contracts for their review. This will happen when Nike yields all of their contracts to NB for NB's review. In others words, it will never happen.
  • Not An Expert
    registered
    4 years ago 06/04/2016 5:17pm CDT
    re: notrump
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    I was waffling between guessing $60,000 and $75,000 for his base--I can't remember which I actually guessed. I think I that Webb signed for $250k/year for 6 years out of Michigan (as the biggest HS distance star since Jim Ryun), and I assumed Berian (a nice underdog story, but a guy with a short track record, which increases the risk) was worth substantially less than half of that annually.

    I also would've thought that the "big" bonuses would've been bigger, though--in the range of $250k-$500k for the top-level stuff (WR, Olympic Gold), and at or very near six figures for any second-tier accomplishments (any WC or Olympic medal, an AR, #1 worldwide ranking).

    What balances that out, I guess, is that all of these major bonuses (and a few more minor ones) go into a "rollover" which will increase his base pay for the remainder of the contract (effectively doubling or tripling the amount of the bonus, bringing it more in line with what I expected).

    Also, as relates to the contentious issue, I don't see how anyone could read this NB offer sheet and then think, "Oh, it implies a reduction clause." With how thorough it is on every level of how an athlete could earn more through bonuses or rollover base pay increases, if there were reduction clauses I would expect them to be equally thorough. I guess I could believe that Nike would think there would be reductions if it includes them in all of its final, long-form contracts but doesn't include them in their offer sheets.

    As an athlete, though, if I saw an offer sheet that didn't include reduction clauses and a final, long-form contract based on that offer sheet that did include reduction clauses, I wouldn't feel like Nike had been negotiating in good faith (maybe this is why there is so much resentment of Nike among athletes). It sounds a lot like, based on what we've heard from Meb, Symmonds, and others, when Nike says reduction clauses are “standard in track and field endorsement contracts,†what they really mean is "standard in Nike track and field endorsement contracts, and we're too myopic to be able to see beyond that (or find it legally convenient to appear to be so)."
  • terrible pay, IMO
    4 years ago 06/04/2016 5:18pm CDT
    re: ojo
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    way less than I thought. He's getting a pittance. Terrible pay for a potential future star. They could easily have doubled that.
  • $125k
    4 years ago 06/04/2016 5:27pm CDT
    re: terrible pay, IMO
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    $125k for a consultant type contractor would equal about $70-90k for a employee.
  • asdfasf
    4 years ago 06/04/2016 5:32pm CDT
    re: terrible pay, IMO
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    terrible pay, IMO wrote:

    way less than I thought. He's getting a pittance. Terrible pay for a potential future star. They could easily have doubled that.

    He is just a potential star. It would be curious to know what he could get if he was an actual star. You would need to see what a Centro, Simpson, or Rupp contract is to see what a "star" gets.

    The real question is how much added money for things like appearence fees (I am guessing from articles that guys like Rudisha are getting 25k+ to line up, Berian might be lucky to get some travel expenses), secondary endorsements (probably zero for a guy like Berian. Probably 90% of bolts earnings), and prize money over a year.

    There are 2 ways of looking at this
    -200k or so is a crap salary for someone who it top 10 in the world
    -200k or so for running in circles is pretty darn good.