Another frustrated Parent with coach

Maybe the soph has skipped a few too many practices to finger bang his gf behind the bleachers.

I've been a coach and an AD and here's my input:

At the beginning of each season most coaches hold a meeting for families explaining the schedule, rules and expectations, etc. At that meeting parents can ask for clarity regarding the selection process for Varisty, State qualifying, etc. Coaches have a responsibility to explain their process, and ADs have a responsibility to ensure they do. Anyone who believes it's simply a high school coach's prerogative to make decisions without any explanation is giving the coach way too much room to be arbitrary.

As an AD I used to ask every coach to develop a clear and transparent system for making such decisions. That was the only way I could back them up when parents came in to complain. By the way, posters who say ADs laugh at parents who complain have never been ADs - interacting with parents, athletes and coaches is the job.

While it's incredibly difficult to objectively determine playing time for sports like basketball, track and XC have the huge benefit of time and distance. There are still many factors (leadership ability, performance under pressure, hand-off ability, attendance at practice, etc) but it is much easier for track/XC coaches to define the expectations, at least a decent/reasonable/fair coach.

As a coach, we wrote into our policies that coaches sometimes have to make hard decisions at the end of a season - one year we did put a senior on the team as our #7 instead of a freshman who beat him at Districts, but we looked at the entire season to make that decision. And we were open about it.

I don't have children, so I can't speak to how to parent. It seems a bit late in the game to complain now, although your son has every right to ask for clarification. But he's young and may not feel comfortable doing that, and from your description his coach doesn't sound too open. At this point, it's fine to go directly to the AD, let him or her know that there was confusion about the selection process for state, and that next year athletes and parents would appreciate clear policies.

We rail on this message board about bad coaches at the top levels (US 4x1 right now), but posters here are defending this high school coach. Based on my experience and how I define good coaching, he hasn't don't his job because he hasn't been transparent with the youth in his care. But it's a bit late to realize you actually don't know what his criteria are for decision making.

You really might want to give some thought to writing more clearly. Anyway, when my kids were on high school teams I let the coach alone to run the teams the way he saw fit regardless of whether I liked the way my kids were handled. If they had ever been unhappy with the way they were treated I'd have told them they should be talking to the coach about it unless there was something really egregious going on. I'd suggest you do the same. High school kids need to begin fighting their own battles.

As a former coach, I couldn't agree more with those that have written about letting the kid handle it. Your Son can ask the coach, get clarity, and move on. If you approach the coach, your son looks like a sniveling little wimp that can't handle anything. It really makes the coach question his character.

As for the previous post from the AD, I think some of your suggestions are very good. As an AD, do you think you have more of an allegiance to the parents or to the coaches?

Richard Englehart wrote:

You really might want to give some thought to writing more clearly. Anyway, when my kids were on high school teams I let the coach alone to run the teams the way he saw fit regardless of whether I liked the way my kids were handled. If they had ever been unhappy with the way they were treated I'd have told them they should be talking to the coach about it unless there was something really egregious going on. I'd suggest you do the same. High school kids need to begin fighting their own battles.

This ^

Realty Dosage wrote:

Parent wrote:

Bad, bad advice. Your job as a parent is to make sure you look out for your child and provide them with the best possible childhood. If this means going to the AD, by all means, go to the AD a d make things right.

Since neither has a chance at making state you go with the senior. Your sons last meet he got to win. Learning to win is better than finishing DFL. The senior might be the hardest worker on the team, a team leader, etc. If your son is anything like you he might be a pain to deal with.

I'd be embarrassed if I were your son. I'd want to make state on my own merits, not because daddy cried to the ad and coach.

Time to cut the cord and let your boy deal with it.

But if the OP's son ran faster than the Sr, didn't he 'make state on his own merits'?

Please, please.

I'm just an internet troll who posts sh!t that makes no sense. Your son will never make state so why does he run anyway. Myself? I'm a meaningless hobbyjogger as well and my 20 min 5k is my world. I also think I look good in side cut shorts.

Frustrated Parent wrote:

Kid is a Sophomore....#2 man on XC. Has run 10:09 2mile (2nd), 4:50 mile (3rd), 2:06 800 (5th).

Told him to talk with coach about what he would run at conf.....coach told him, "I decide what you run, go back to class."

2 weeks ago moves him down to Sophomore for conference and Quads him 4x800, 800, mile, 4x400....2:06(1), 2:10(3), 4:57(1), 55(anchor, 1).

State qual coming up and 1 event has any chance to go down in 2mile and mile. Nods another 10:22 Senior to the 2 mile. Nods another Soph (2:05, 10:12, 4:48) to triple 4x8, 800, mile.

He gets nothing.

None of your sons times are worthy of whining about not going to state.

He ran in Soph division, and he should be happy to get a little hardware.

Even in a BAD varsity division at the league level, those time aren't very good.

Parent of two wrote:

doesn't make sense wrote:

I've never understood this. Why not give the experience to the runner who will be returning?

Easy... These times mean nothing and these kids aren't going to running for Nike. The Senior has his last chance to compete on a team he's run for for 4 years.

The other kid has 2 more years to have fun doing it before moving on with this life.

I forgot we are in the millenial era that everyone should get a trophy even if you are bad. The senior had his chance and he remained sucky throughout his career. Well, at least he tried so he deserves it because he is older. In fact, the coach should give him a finisher's medal at the finish line.

As an AD, you should know you've heard only the parent's side of the story. Maybe guidelines were put in place. Maybe they were followed. Parents often view things through their own spectrum.

You should also be familiar with the Oxford comma for clarity.

[quote]Warrior revolution wrote:

I've been a coach and an AD and here's my input:

At the beginning of each season most coaches hold a meeting for families explaining the schedule, rules and expectations, etc. At that meeting parents can ask for clarity regarding the selection process for Varisty, State qualifying, etc. Coaches have a responsibility to explain their process, and ADs have a responsibility to ensure they do. Anyone who believes it's simply a high school coach's prerogative to make decisions without any explanation is giving the coach way too much room to be arbitrary.

This is a great point. OP's involvement does not constitute of fault of his son's character. A coach's power is not absolute, and a clear, transparent decision making process must exist to ensure that runners a treated fairly and in accordance with the program's policies. It sounds like this coach isn't very rational, he's already dismissed your son once, so what makes you think he'll listen again? Back in HS I was a sub 9:20 two miler who got kicked off the team twice, not by any fault of my own, but because we lacked competent coaches. In fact, my senior year we didn't have any coaches at all. In both cases, however, it wasn't until I, with my parents, went to the AD that I was reinstated. ADs will always, always, take the side of rational parents who support their athletes over bs walk on coaches.

JND wrote:

thejeff wrote:

Encourage YOUR SON to set up an appointment with the coach to discuss YOUR SON's concerns. IF and ONLY IF your son gets blown off, should you get involved. If that happens, request to meet directly with the coach (not the AD). If and only if you get blown off, should you request to meet with the AD.

That is the most helpful advice you will get.

No. The best advice is to set up an appointment with an English teacher.

+1

Warrior Revolution,

The track and CC coaches at my kids' high school (daughter graduated, son still there) have absolute authority to make any selection they like, the AD (who has a background in CC and track and field) supports that position, and in the pre-season meeting you referred to, they say (and it's in the handbook) that while time or distance is the most important factor, other factors come in to play also. Those things?: practice attendance, team player, how have you performed lately, and pretty much any reason a coach wants to put someone in over another runner. The girls coach was very strong with the performance, and he would go with the best athletes every time. The boys coach has a soft spot for the seniors, but still, if an underclassman was far better, he would put the underclassman in. Senior was just perhaps a LITTLE worse, he'd give the senior a shot, especially if he liked him.

I actually have no issue with either approach as the goal for any athlete is the same -- run fast and snag a slot in a weekend meet.

So, what do you do if you're a 9:02 3200 runner but there are two guys who run in the 8:40s? Well, that's rare, but that kind of thing happens. You run great CC times, run a fast time in a dual meet and video it if you have to, and have the coach explain to college coaches that the 9:02 guy doesn't have any Milesplit track times because of the other steller runners who got to run in the Saturday meets. If it were me, I'd try to get that third guy a shot at a big meet without the other two somewhere.

doesn't make sense wrote:

Realty Dosage wrote:

Coaches like winning and will put the best team out there. If it's close between a sophomore and senior, usually it goes to the dedicated senior.

I've never understood this. Why not give the experience to the runner who will be returning?

Why not give the experience to the runner who will NOT be returning? It will be their last and possibly only chance. Sophomore has a couple more years to experience the meet.

Coach to parents:

"I will not discuss playing time with the parents".

This has been a mantra I've heard myself as the high school athlete and through my own children's competitive days.

At worst it is a life lesson for the kid.

Maybe I'm not good at math, but it sounds like the other sophomore has better PRs across the board. I get the point that your son did not get anything and this kid got 3 events, but I think the reality is nobody from this team is qualifying for state so the coach just picked his favorite people.

Tell your son to use this as fire and run harder and faster. If he runs 2:00/4:35/9:45 next year he will be the king of the team.

Look, here is the deal:

You said yourself, the coach gave two athletes a chance to qualify. YOUR SON ISN'T EVEN THE BEST SOPHOMORE ON THE TEAM! I get sending the senior AND the other soph instead of your kid. If you decide that this is the hill you're taking your stand on, you will be deemed a helicopter parent and your kid will probably lose out on future chances because of it. Let time take its course. Maybe your kid gets better by his junior year... maybe your kid decides track isn't for him. Either way, you're making a big deal about your kid not getting a shot, when in reality, he probably doesn't deserve one.

Rich, yep, that's what my parents told me: fight your own battles, now take out the garbage and mow the lawn.

Tom

.[/quote]

Bad, bad advice. Your job as a parent is to make sure you look out for your child and provide them with the best possible childhood. If this means going to the AD, by all means, go to the AD a d make things right.[/quote]

Let your kid fight his battles. Stop interfering. Newsflash....your kid isn't any good anyway so maybe he should just get better and there would not be an issue.