How come my legs never hold me back?

Thanks man, really appreciate the help

I would also add to this the muscular element of hill running. Running uphill will stress a certain set of muscles, and downhill will stress a slightly different balance of muscles. In combination with the aerobic element of hills, you can hit a lot of different training needs with hills.

The simple way of putting it is that in a tough hill workout, you will feel the effort in both your lungs and your legs, and both elements should improve in your flat running. You will likely get the "heart pounding" and the "knees can't lift" feeling all at once. But not all running on hills needs to be hard - you will see a lot of benefit doing your easy runs on a hilly route as well (if at all possible, seek out hills on most runs - they don't always need to be really big hills, just try to mix up the terrain).

Do you normally just make up explanations for yourself?

agip wrote:

runthecountry wrote:

How much hill running do you do? I have experienced feeling like my "limitation" was my lungs sometimes, and at other times my legs (different points in my training). But incorporating hills into my training - both hill repeats and hilly steady runs - seems to balance things out in a way.

+1

I have a similar issue to the OP - my legs rarely get tired...what slows me is when my heart rate gets up to a certain level

I have the same problem, too. My legs are never the limiting factor. It is always my breathing/heart rate. I completely understand what the OP is saying.

Yes, hill training has helped, but I still feel I can run faster than what my breathing/heart rate will permit. I continue to be puzzled when I hear people discuss running as being "in the legs."

Nearly all of my running is in the hills (I live in a hilly area). I do not think I have ever experienced the "knees can't lift" feeling, even in a marathon.

It is always the "heart is beating too fast" feeling--always.

One more post, since this subject is so interesting...

The only thing I do not like about running is running fast, i.e. 5k pace or faster. In fact, the 10k is worse than the 5k in that if I miscalculate, and go out too fast, the suffering seems like forever...the last two miles or more...awful. In a 5k, at least the suffering is over soon. Notice I did not say "pain," but suffering. That awful feeling I get when my heart rate is high and my breathing is too fast is a feeling of suffering. I do not feel pain anywhere. It is worse. It is suffering. It is a nasty feeling (nausea?) in the chest area, around the heart. I am somewhat hesitant to say "nausea" because in years of running races, I have never vomited.

At just above marathon pace, it feels as if I can run forever. I can do plenty of LT work, too. I can train hills, and run hard, mile after mile. Just keep me away from that awful fast stuff. That awful suffering.

I realy hate vomiting. Perhaps this is why I simply want to avoid anything that makes me feel that way.

outsiderunner wrote:

I continue to be puzzled when I hear people discuss running as being "in the legs."

Maybe because that's how we move?

You're not cut out for hard work, son.

Personally I get this feeling but it has diminished when I began doing higher mileage and more long runs. I believe it is an issue of endurance and wouldn't jump to exercise induced asthma as the cause right away. Try building to 10 more mpw

The 5K is probably around 85%,, 10K 90%, marathon 95% aerobic.

Despite this running at different speeds should be emphasized in training.

That is why all the comments on hill training come in on this thread.

Lydiard said that you should do aerobic base building for "as long as possible."

You mentioned that you are a "hobby" runner, which is a negative term which I wish you did not use. However I take this to mean that you do not run many miles in training.

What you want to do is many long runs. Combine that with strides and have one day per week where you work on "speed development."

Speed Development is often misunderstood. 10 x 200, 8 x 400, 6 x 800, etc. is not speed development! Stay away from it! (Read more about Lydiard to understand how to put that in if you feel you must. You need several books written by disciples of Lydiard to truly understand hard interval training. In most cases it does more harm than good.)

Here is an example of what you should do every week of the year:

Warm ups and Cool downs every day plus:

Sunday: Long Run of one mile beyond your longest run the week before.

Monday: Easy paced recovery run of 2-5 miles

Tuesday: 10 x 80 meters @ 80-95% of VO2 Max.

(2 @ 80, 2 @ 85, 2 at 90, 4 @ 95%, start each one slow and progress to

fast. No need for quick starts.) Key - RELAXED SPEED

Wednesday: Easy paced recovery run of 2-5 miles

Thursday: Hilly run of 3-6 miles

Friday: Long Run similar to Sunday...perhaps one mile less.

Saturday: Easy Recovery run of 1-2 miles

(Do 4-6 X 60 meter strides almost daily.)

I have been involved in this sport as a runner for 46 years, and also as a coach and writer for many of those years. Yet you need to make many adjustments to this or any other program. A good rule of thumb is to do less than you think you can. Do not time or race much!!! As important as anything........You will run faster as a RELAXED runner. Sprint, Float, Sprint is a great drill to teach relaxation.

Jed Clampett (I have interviewed Olympians)

Loved you on the Beverly Hillbillies.

He should have stayed there.

well sure, yes.

But my 'no surge' philosophy got backing on the front page today:

Part of a large pack that hung together through the first 13.1 miles, Ward dropped to fourth when Tyler Pennel surged at 16 miles. “I didn’t know if anyone else could hold Tyler’s pace, but I knew I couldn’t sustain it,” he said. “I also knew that a marathon isn’t like a track race where you have to cover every move. I switched to a plan of managing the fastest pace I could maintain to the finish.”

We 100% agree with Ward’s statement. In a marathon, finding the “fastest pace” you can maintain to the finish is the way to go. But we’d go a step further and say that’s basically the way to do it in any distance race.

If you are in a 5k and running 70-second laps for the first 3200 and a guy throws in a 62 on the 9th lap, don’t run a 62 yourself unless you can run 62s to the finish. If you can bang out four 65s, then do that.

Over the years, we think distance runners are getting smarter and smarter. More and more runners are realizing that a mid-race surge is a bit of waste of energy. Just figure out how to get to the finish line the fastest and you’ll end up with the highest place possible. That strategy of “don’t surge” nearly resulted in Ryan Hill winning the gold medal at World Indoors.

While our “never surge” philosophy is getting more and more popular (Mo Farah has repeatedly won races this way – he even set the European half marathon record this way last year, winning the race after getting dropped), it does make racing boring for the fans. One of the reasons why the HS miles at the old Millrose Games at Madison Square Garden used to be our favorite races to watch was because the competitors would battle each other in the middle of the race like their lives depended on it. In college and the pros, where the racers are more experienced, people pretty much chill out for 800, get in position for 400 and then race for 400.

I could not agree more. Surges generally produce bad results. Just yesterday, I was reflecting upon how talented and well trained one must be to truly close a gap in a race. I do not mean close a gap, and then drop off in the end. Nor do I mean being able to pass a runner (or runners) who are slowing toward the end of a race. To truly close the gap, one must be able to maintain the pace of the faster runner (or group) until the end. I do not know if I have ever truly closed a gap in a race...a very difficult task indeed, and one must have a superb understanding of one's fitness and ability...and an excellent sense of timing, too.

I have always "run my own race," looking for the best possible performance, while being smart about my fitness and strategy. Sure, I could have perhaps finished better on a few occasions, but I do not recall wasting myself in an ill-advised surge.

How come my legs never hold me back?

Because they don't love you.

This is ridiculous reasoning. People surge to shake people, not because it's good for them physically.

The objective is to win.

I agree: the objective is to win. But if you surge, and you a'int got it, you will fade like a fool.

better to fade than to have never tried.but if you feel it in the lungs and never legs, go get checked for asthma. could be exercise induced, could be allergy induced, could be pollution (particulate matter) induced. not the end of the world, figure out what triggers it and then avoid triggers (or know when a day can never be good) and figure out ways to get through it.i have asthma, one thing i can really never do is a sprint start or i flare up and fade hard. i have to start a bit slow, but i can ramp it up the entire way and then kick at the end. look into supper compensation for asthma (basically you trigger an attack, then 30 - 60 min later your airways naturally open up) and try that before a hard workout and see ow it goes. then a race.

outsiderunner wrote:

I agree: the objective is to win. But if you surge, and you a'int got it, you will fade like a fool.

outsiderunner wrote:

I agree: the objective is to win. But if you surge, and you a'int got it, you will fade like a fool.

Which is why you practice surging instead of mincing along looking at your heart rate monitor.