How is sodium bicarbonate used??

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majorkey wrote:

Okay.. thanks for the feedback. Do you guys know any other clean way to "performance enhancement"

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I used it before almost every marathon, and, though it was probably mainly psychological, felt like my legs were able to take the beating of the marathon better without hitting the lactic acid wall as early. My first marathon, I crashed hard at mile 19, and every marathon after that (except Chicago), I was generally not feeling shitty till mile 22-24, and was able to maintain my form better to the finish. Got under 2:30 thanks to this "PED", and would use it again.

Thanks o.o. for that detailed post.

Do you have an opinion on the use of Tums (calcium carbonate)? Is it not sufficiently alkaline? Thanks.

Oregon oldtimer - I just wanted to say thanks, your post was amazing. I've tried to learn about bicarbonate loading online before, but your post is the best summary I've seen. Very detailed and informative. I'm not sure whether I'll try this or not, but now I can make a much more informed decision. (I probably wouldn't do it in a high stakes competition, even if it proves to work for me in workouts, because I would feel bad about the fairness aspect. But if I could finally break 2:00 for the 800 this way in a time trial, that would be a lot of fun.)

Anyway, thanks again, oregon oldtimer!! Also, just out of curiosity, have you tried this yourself and how did it go? (Not as informative as the research, of course, but I'm curious!)

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B-Sample wrote:

Thanks o.o. for that detailed post.

Do you have an opinion on the use of Tums (calcium carbonate)? Is it not sufficiently alkaline? Thanks.

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Meb FTW wrote:

Yeah. Tried it. Crappy result.

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Sodium bicarbonate no longer exists. The chemistry community now refers to that particular substance as "sodium hydrogen carbonate." Thanks, please revise your vocabulary.

It is used for abortions. You can read about it over in the planned parenthood thread.

FINALLY! Someone who knows what they're talking about.

This study is pretty clear: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2403. It's too bad most won't be able to access the full text. I did upload an image of a graph that's pretty descriptive: http://oi68.tinypic.com/214d361.jpg. There's a lot of other great data in the full text that's really interesting.

Bad copy/paste job: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24031

1 tsp is 5gm - holy moly - I take 500mg if I've had too much protein and salt (I've had gout before) and sometimes if I haven't had too much to eat I will experience absolutely painful nausea. Memory is hazy but maybe I just needed more water based on another post (by a chemist).

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Goutmeister wrote:

Your body buffers the pH of your blood very well-and keeps it to a narrow range. I take Potassium Bicarbonate to alkalize my urine to treat kidney stones of the uric acid variety-i.e. gout. The Potassium Bicarbonate is recommended as a low sodium alternative to Baking Soda, but the mechanism is identical. Blood is alkalized-it immediately dumps the alkali into the kidneys where it dissolves (or keeps dissolved) the Uric Acid so I pee it out, rather than having it crystalize in my ureter, or in my joints when I get older.

My blood pH stays relatively constant. I can get my pee to go from 7.2 to 8.2 with 1 tsp of Potassium Bicarbonate in a glass of water. I suppose there might be a small benefit to a 400 or 800 runner to use this approach to dissipate that lactic acid, but I think the timing would be tricky. My Urine pH shoots up within 15 minutes, so I would guess the mechanism in the blood is almost instantaneous.

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i think those that want to try this should weigh out 20g of sodium bicarb (thats about right at 0.3g/kg bw for a 68kg person). just see how much that is. no fun way of taking that, capsule or not. that's also a ton of sodium, about 5.5g - daily intake of 2.5g was just revoked but if high BP and sensitive to Na then still recommended to keep under 2.5g/day. so if you are one of the unlucky who are sensitive to salt for BP, watch out...

be sure to have tp in hand and the bathroom near by for this one.

Here are a couple of links to abstracts of a couple of applied bicarbonate studies. The first one is specifically looking at bicarb use for the 800-m, the second one at 400-m.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6312244

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2830108

I never tried it myself for the very reason that I was never in competitive track racing shape when I thought it would be beneficial. I have had several 1500-5000m athletes (3:50-14:10) try it out and ALL of them felt that it worked. All anecdotal but... One of my recent grad students investigated the potential effects of bicarbonate with resistance training and the results appeared to be promising; however, we had two previous studies that showed it to not impact resistance exercise performance. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22941193

Disregarding the moral/ethic issues, knowing what I know about it, I'd probably try it if I was a competitive athlete. Essentially, any activity that promotes a high acid load in the muscle/blood would benefit by enhancing the buffer system, of which bicarbonate is the primary extracellular buffer and very easy to manipulate.

Calcium carbonate (TUMS) is very poorly absorbed from the stomach and as such does not have any impact on plasma pH. It can be packed in gelatin capsules to use as a placebo in bicarbonate studies (double-blind studies). It essentially acts in the gut as a very effective buffer for stomach acid (i.e., acid indigestion).

1.5s over 400 is an extreme improvement

Would calcium carbonate nullify sodium bicarbonate in this application? If not it might mitigate the g.i. side-effects. I remember I at least felt more comfortable at 800-1500 pace using the antacids. I never was a post-race puker, but it was nice to not feel like I got hit by the "gutmobile" afterwards.

I don't compete on the track anymore, but rock climb at a high level, where muscular acidosis is a limiting factor. I may give it a try in that context this season.

Calcium carbonate wouldn't likely mitigate the negative side-effects of sodium bicarb. The issue is that the sodium bound with the bicarbonate has an osmotic effect and draws water into the gut causing gastric cramping and diarrhea. It is essentially like drinking salt water. The sodium dose is huge. If one was to take too much sodium bicarbonate (>0.3 g/kg) you have the possibility of increasing pH of the blood over 7.5 and at that point you will start getting nausea. The key to ingestion of sodium bicarb is to dilute it down with plenty of fluid. Almost without exception, the individuals that have g.i. problems don't not drink adequate fluids. Even those that do drink adequately, about 10% will still have g.i. issues.

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oregon oldtimer wrote:

I have published about 5 studies dealing with sodium bicarbonate ingestion and acid-base balance, so I know a little bit about the topic. Also, did my thesis and dissertation on the topic.

The dosage is very specific. To little = no effect. To much = no effect and bad side effects (gastrointestinal distress). Take it to soon = no effect. Take it to late = no effect. Optimal is 0.3 g/kg of body weight taken 90-105 minute prior to the activity. Ingest it over about 15 min with as much water as you can tolerate. Typically a liter or more in the first 30 min. After that drink regularly. Easiest way to ingest it is to pack it into gelatin capsules, that way you won't have to deal with swallowing the salty solution which can make you vomit. You can order gelatin capsules from a pharmacy or online. Size 0 or 00 is the best.

Caused the plasma pH to increase from about 7.40 to 7.45-49. If it goes higher than that you will likely get sick. Is effective in events with maximal intensity of 1-3 min. Good for 400/800-m and maybe 1500-m. May also be effective in a longer race if there is a sustained kick of 1-3 min. Essentially, any activity with a significant lactic acid load can benefit from it. pH is higher during the activity and lactate efflux from the cell is enhanced thereby maintaining intracellular pH. If it is effective over 800-m you can expect a 1.5 - 3.0 second improvement. 400-m = about 0.5-0.7 sec improvement. There are no studies investigating elite athletes using bicarbonate so there is no evidence to support its use by the elite. Having said that, I am aware of a 4:14 1500-m college female that tried it and improved about 2 seconds when she did it.

There is not a test for bicarb loading, hence you can do it "legally". However, the practice is against the spirit of the law. before you point your finger... how many of you drive over the speed limit if you know for a fact there are no police on the road?

An alkaline diet does not have the same impact on plasma pH and doesn't impact exercise performance. It is banned in horse racing and also dog racing.

if you are going to try it, test it out in a workout first. If no problems then try it in a race and see what happens.

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