What if you Just cycle instead of easy / recovery days?

I won't get into my weekly sched, but I'm on a bike a few days each week and it keeps me more injury free than without it. It's not voodoo, your body understands stress and not stress, not whether you're striding 100s or walking briskly up the stairs. Get over it. The only issue with cycling over running is the pounding/or lack of pounding. If you cycle too much, it does make running harder for this very reason. But then you'll wonder why you're doing something physical with so much pounding, so I won't get into that.

Secondly, cycling can be far better on your joints than running easily, especially as age and biomechanical issues crop up. As long as you fit correctly, you can't really get more injuries cycling, unless you crash. So don't crash. Don't even THINK about competition or racing, because there you will crash.

Thirdly, if desired, you can work FAR harder on a bicycle than you can running. Hill intervals, for example, you can bury yourself, and actually do more because recovery is brainless, soft pedaling while coasting back down the hill. And when totally drained by efforts, you can be seated, and therefore continue burying yourself. Try something like 3m uphill with 1m recoveries, running, and tell me how you do it. I do this on my bike.

I wonder if something would be good like base build and then move to cycling on easy days during intense training, whilst having a base.

Obviously the answer is to try it. Seems to me like substituting a bike ride instead of a second run would be the best--I'd be wary of only running two or three times a week. I'm sure with enough time and attention, a good percentage could be arrived at (something like under 35% biking--but who knows maybe the percentage will be 80% biking).

Jack Foster, the greatest masters distance runner in history, ran a 2:11 age 41 while biking 1-2 days a week. He ran 2:20 age 50 with even more biking.

I will share my n+1:

Our group of local runners followed a FIRST (Run Less, Run Faster) Plan set up by a local coach for the NOLA marathon a couple of years ago.

Mondays: around 5k worth of hard intervals (think: Daniels Rep pace). Mostly 400s and 800s, but a couple of 3x1mi that were absolutely brutal.

Wednesdays: Tempo, from 5-9 miles

Fridays: Long, a good bit faster than typical long runs... something like Marathon Pace plus :30-:45, depending on the distance and how far into the plan we were. Ranged from 10mi on recovery weeks to a couple of 20milers.

2-3 days a week were cross training, pretty much anything we wanted, except for running. The idea was to get our aerobic work while saving our legs from the pounding. I usually did an easy bike, but sometimes my legs were so trashed, I would go to the pool and swim with paddles.

The group I ran with was a good bit faster than me. For the first 2-3 weeks, just about every workout felt like a race effort. But, I improved quickly. I PRd my 5k and 10k on weekend races, and midway thru the plan, I actually PRd my Half Marathon on a training run. Take that, Cassidy. I ended up with a fourth PR on the marathon itself, even tho it was 25ºF warmer (and muggy) on race day than it had been during training. ...on the other hand, I was injured soon afterwards, and of the 6 or so guys who started the plan, only 2 made it to race day (the other guy was our coach, who also PRd... everyone else got injured.)

My takeaway: If you go in to a program like this with a good aerobic mileage base, you could see some really nice improvements. If you don't keep your base up periodically, tho, you could easily over sharpen your pencil and break the lead.

Actually I was thinking of the Brownlee brothers. Ever heard of them?

Disclaimer: I'm not a great at any of the sports and didn't participate in either sport at any level when I was younger.

That said, I came into running after 6 years of fairly hard core cycling. In the 5000 to 6000 miles per year range, with a lot of those miles as fairly aggressive club rides.

I started running going into 2009 at age 35 just because I needed something to do in the winter, and wanted to maintain my cycling shape (go figure). Keep in mind I did not have a running background. My third run I did 22:30 5k (why did I race that quickly? Who knows). And yea it's a very sad time, but this is basically "off the couch" and in my mid-30s.

A couple months later I did a hilly 10k under 43, and was passing people on every hill. It was like the hills didn't even matter. I was still thinking 15 miles per week running was great. I was still cycling too, when the weather cooperated.

I went on to run a 1:27 half within a year, never really getting over 30 mpw but the two or three times I did a 14 mile long run.

Then what happened in 2010? I decided to quit cycling, and run only. I got up to closer to 40mpw but couldn't go higher because I kept getting injured. I started to gain weight. All of a sudden I'd have good days and bad days on hills.

Yea, I ran a couple more PRs in the half in spite of that, but it kept getting worse.

Going into 2013 and 2014, I had more bad days than good on hills, still gaining weight, get injured otherwise.

Now in 2016, I basically don't run and don't cycle. I run about 12 to 15 mpw and all hills no matter how slight are my enemy. Of course I've gained way too much weight so that doesn't help.

I think that cycling gave me great power for hills and rolling terrain, and was a great supplement for my aerobic systems and also ability to recover after hard efforts (during a run/race). On the flip side, once I removed all that "extra work", I couldn't make up the calorie difference with just running, and kept gaining weight. Yea, cut down on calories eaten then...but that's hard when you're used to a certain way of eating or living.

Disclaimer: I'm not a great at any of the sports and didn't participate in either sport at any level when I was younger.

That said, I came into running intelligently after a few years of stupidity where every run was a hard effort.

I started running going into 2012 at age 33 just because I needed something to do in the winter, and relieve the stress of graduate school. Keep in mind I did not have a running background. My first 5k was a shade under 30min. Who knows). And yea it's a very sad time, but this is basically "off the couch" and in my mid-30s.

I did get injured, though not as often and each time I went back to the drawing board and worked on fixing underlying issues instead of being a bitch and moaning about it. It was hard work, but I enjoyed the process and was always hungry to make a comeback.

Now, with a mere 2 years of smart training, consistency, somewhat middling mileage (70mpw), with periodization and a conservative strength program I've set PRs of 16:57 (5k), 80:03 (HM), 35:48 (10k).

I used to find hills challenging, but with sufficient practice, I now hammer them with no problems. Now in 2016, I basically don't cycle (except to commute to work) and only run.

I think that practice on hills and a solid summer, winter base (building up to 80mpw) gave me great power for hills and rolling terrain, and was a great supplement for my aerobic systems and also ability to recover after hard efforts (during a run/race). On the flip side...there is no flip side.

If you really want to run well, put in the work.

Run Less Run Faster wrote:

Someone should write a book about this...

You mean Furman? Can you think of a good title for it? Or do you agree that it might already have been written and nobody here seems to have noticed?

larkimm wrote:

Run Less Run Faster wrote:

Someone should write a book about this...

You mean Furman? Can you think of a good title for it? Or do you agree that it might already have been written and nobody here seems to have noticed?

Choice B ;)

This is a very interesting story. I believe what you say, but am puzzled by the weight gain/calories issue, as running burns more calories than cycling.

Otherwise, I can see how switching to running only kicked off a chain of injuries for you. Running is very tough on the body, and is an injury-oriented sport (extremely so).

outsiderunner wrote:

This is a very interesting story. I believe what you say, but am puzzled by the weight gain/calories issue, as running burns more calories than cycling.

Otherwise, I can see how switching to running only kicked off a chain of injuries for you. Running is very tough on the body, and is an injury-oriented sport (extremely so).

Any sport can result in injury if you are not smart about taking care yourself and starting out conservatively. Running is probably more forgiving than say, soccer. Most people don't listen to their bodies.

Instead of being a cryptic arrogant douche do you want to post the book title?

I'm observing fantastic results with roughly 40km/weeks of quality running (in a club) supplemented by indoor cycling and swimming. For cycling you have to work for twice as long as you would spend running, but at the same "effort level". I'm not sure swimming truly helps but I like it. 15 minutes of freestyle to warm up then as many 100s as I can do while "swimming fast" with 15-20 seconds rest.

Being able to know how fast you can go at an "easy" effort is the key to improving your efficiency

100% quality running only wrote:

Instead of being a cryptic arrogant douche do you want to post the book title?

Ah, but he did post the title.

100% quality running only wrote:

Instead of being a cryptic arrogant douche do you want to post the book title?

The title of the book is Run Less Run Faster

I believe another poster has already posted a link to the book on Amazon. I forgive you for calling me a cryptic arrogant douche.

Thanks

;)

To err is human; to forgive is divine.