Best All-Time HS All-Star XC Team by State

Kalaby wrote:

McCarey doesn't make the cut IMO - 12:25 at VCP back in the day was huge, but just not enough supporting that effort for me to make him a top 7.

A fellow CHSAA guy of that era like Gene McCarthy would be a more worthy candidate (he had 5 runs of 12:30.0 or faster at VCP; tied with Osto for the most ever). Even a guy like Dobrzynski would belong on this list over McCarey IMO. As a former CHSAA guy I can say that things get skewed when relying predominantly on the VCP 2.5 mile list. It's the CHSAA's "home" course, so there are way more opportunities to run there than others have, especially in the past when you didn't see the upstate NY runners come down to VCP in the same numbers they do today for Manhattan/Easterns.

A pretty good case can be made that McCarthy belongs on a XC list before Centrowitz does. McCarthy's senior year, the year following Centrowitz, was competitively better than Centrowitz' senior year. As I mentioned earlier, I think Centrowitz' senior XC season was hampered by injury which took him some time into indoors to recover from. At the time, McNiff beating him in the Loughlin 2 mile was, in part, attributed to him being a little short of shape. That doesn't alter the fact that McCarthy's senior season was much better.

Thanks for all the names you've reminded us of and I agree that there are only a few locks.

To the poster who suggested that Zach Wills should not be on the Ohio list: With all due respect, you have no idea what you're talking about. THREE D1 state titles, sub-15 PR, and basically total domination for three years has earned him a permanent place on the Mt. Rushmore of Ohio HS XC runners. Don't hold his lack of a college/pro career against him. Dude was a legend.

Speaking of which, I know this has nothing to do with XC, but it's fun to go back and watch his runner-up finish in the national 2-mile championship as a sophomore. No shame in losing to Trevor Dunbar, and he beat Lukas freaking Verzbicas. Incredible. Possibly the most decorated 3200/XC high school runner in Ohio history.

Michael Brajdic often gets overlooked because he was in the same graduating class as Wills (2011) and competed in D2, which is a shame, because he may have even had a BETTER senior XC season than Wills. Remember, Brajdic was the one who broke Bob Kennedy's Scioto Downs course record at the 2010 state meet; Wills wasn't even close. It's a shame the meet was moved to NTR, as I would have liked to see what Jordan could have run at Scioto this year. Alas.

Please update Massachusetts to reflect the following:

Massachusetts:

1. Abdirizak Mohammed

2. Alberto Salazar (8:53.8 for 2mi; 14:04.8 for 5k; 12:22.5 for VCP @ 2.5 mi)

3. Andy Powell

4. Franklyn Sanchez

5. Jonathan Riley

6. Art Dulong

7. Mike Mahon

Thank you.

Mass hole wrote:

Please update Massachusetts to reflect the following:

Massachusetts:

1. Abdirizak Mohammed

2. Alberto Salazar (8:53.8 for 2mi; 14:04.8 for 5k; 12:22.5 for VCP @ 2.5 mi)

3. Andy Powell

4. Franklyn Sanchez

5. Jonathan Riley

6. Art Dulong

7. Mike Mahon

Thank you.

Got it thanks. I will post all the updates later today.

I agree which is why I arrived at the mix of names. Part of the fun in picking out a team is about generational differences or other methods beyond the clock. Examples:

-I know Brown's senior yr, Derryfield was a mess due to a monsoon that fell over several days including class meet. Everyone was slow that championship season.

- The switch to Mines Falls for Meet of Champions was made to not beat kids up on successive weeks before heading to New England's. That changed performance and our lens at their status on the hierarchy. Don't read that as diminished as a runner like Jenkins is going to perform great no matter what.

- A guy like Jenkins who didn't run early in HS v Thorne who was on the radar from freshman yr on. Would Jenkins have been a FL finalist had he started freshman yr?

-The number of state champs who fell off or stepped up for New England's or from Class meet to MOC.

What we need is a stud or two to break into the no question group we have w/Downin and Mort.

There are probably even a few older runners who could be included on the list, but I am comfortable w/our top 5 anyway.

BTW, I haven't made it to a meet in a few years so newer runners aren't on my radar. Thanks again.

Jonathan Green for Massachusetts. He tried giving chase to Cheserek at the regional meet his senior year and lasted 2 miles with him I think. Destroyed the course record at Northfield and beat Powell's Garnder course record. Powell's Garder course record was set the year he battled Sanchez at the all state meet where they were separated by one second.

Mr. OAR wrote:

[quote]pre841 wrote:

Massachusetts:

1. Abdirizak Mohammed

2. Andy Powell

3. Sanchez

4. Jonathan Riley

5. Salazar

6. Tom McArdle

7. Quigley

quote]

Jonathan Green for Massachusetts. He tried giving chase to Cheserek at the regional meet his senior year and lasted 2 miles with him I think. Destroyed the course record at Northfield and beat Powell's Garnder course record. Powell's Garder course record was set the year he battled Sanchez at the all state meet where they were separated by one second.

This is what I have for MA currently. Please let me know who Green should replace on this current roster.

Massachusetts

1. Abdirizak Mohammed

2. Alberto Salazar (8:53.8 for 2mi; 14:04.8 for 5k; 12:22.5 for VCP @ 2.5 mi)

3. Andy Powell

4. Franklyn Sanchez

5. Jonathan Riley

6. Art Dulong

7. Mike Mahon

This is who I currently have for NY. Please let me know who McCarthy should replace.

New York

1. Dave Pottetti

2. John Gregorek (8:50.7 for 2 mi; 12:31 for VCP @ 2.5 mi)

3. Luis Ostolozaga (12:16.4 for VCP @ 2.5 mi)

4. John Trautmann (8:44.53c for 2 mi)

5. Matt Centrowitz (8:56.2 for 2 mi)

6. Kevin McCarey

7. Josh McDougal (8:48.11 for 2 mi)

Mike Sheely maybe one to look at along with a few of the other Kenwood runners of that era. Mike also made a us xc jr world team.

Rich Kimball has to be on California's team. He went undefeated in fall of 1973 dominating everyone including Kingery. He also ran 13:43.6 3-mile on track that fall and then was the World Junior cross country champion.

I'm not including anything he did on the track.

Terry Williams also should be on it. Just look him to see how good he was the fall of 1972.[/quote]

You DID just mention he ran a 13:43.6 on the TRACK. Hello?

STOP with the TRACK TIMES people! The OP ask for "Best All-Time HS All-Star XC".

"XC" means Cross Country on a "Cross Country Course".

No need to try to build a case for ANY runner by dropping Track Times in the equation.

Look at the body of work that they have done ( in XC ) throughout H.S. and then decide. One good year or season their senior year ( in 72' or 73') does not make them an All-timer!

XC "ONLY" wrote:

Rich Kimball has to be on California's team. He went undefeated in fall of 1973 dominating everyone including Kingery. He also ran 13:43.6 3-mile on track that fall and then was the World Junior cross country champion.

I'm not including anything he did on the track.

Terry Williams also should be on it. Just look him to see how good he was the fall of 1972.

You DID just mention he ran a 13:43.6 on the TRACK. Hello?

STOP with the TRACK TIMES people! The OP ask for "Best All-Time HS All-Star XC".

"XC" means Cross Country on a "Cross Country Course".

No need to try to build a case for ANY runner by dropping Track Times in the equation.

Look at the body of work that they have done ( in XC ) throughout H.S. and then decide. One good year or season their senior year ( in 72' or 73') does not make them an All-timer![/quote]

As the person who started this thread, I certainly was looking for the top XC team by state. In figuring out how to possibly score a meet like this, I would certainly welcome the addition of track times in order to give a comparative measure of athletes between states. Figuring out the seven that makes up a state's roster is easier comparing in-state runners by head to head competition or based on times from the same XC course. Ultimately, PRs from track times will be needed to compare competitors from across the states.

Michigander wrote:

Rtiz

Grant Fisher

Greg Meyer

Herb Lindsay

Todd Williams

Other Footlocker champs

You could throw Ritz's old Rockford teammate Jason Hartmann into the mix. Also up for consideration: Maverick Darling and Ryan Shay.

These are the top boys' times at MIS since the state meet moved there in 1996:

Dathan Ritzenhein Rockford 14:10.4 2000 D1

Jason Hartmann Rockford 14:51 1998 A

Grant Fisher Grand Blanc 14:52.5 2014 D1

Maverick Darling Ovid-Elsie 14:52.8 2007 D3

Dustin Voss Saline 14:54.45 2003 D1

Kurtis Marlowe Richland Gull Lake 15:02.5 2000 D2

Tim Ross Caledonia 15:03.6 2001 D2

hahaha throwing shade where it needs to be thrown... I love it

As for Missouri, Jason Pyrah never ran high school cross country. He played football.

I'd help put together the Vermont list, but there are some heady names being tossed around on this thread right now. It's more than a little intimidating.

Are we allowed to claim Wheating? Native Vermonter but ran for a prep school in NH.

McCarey should be removed.

You've got it right. Green was good, but not good enough to make that list.

North Carolina Boys:

Jake Huryz

Jack Bolas

Ryan Hill

Matt Debole

Thomas Graham

Blake Williams

Mike

Mike Mahon because I'm not even sure in high school. IGreen could have taken down Powell's Franklin Park course record. Which no one has come within 30 seconds of since the 90's.