CHSAA>All other NY sections

none lol. fordham was way more impressive in track

No JC, Xavier kind of rode YOU

Name a CHSAA team out there that's not St. Anthony's, Chaminade, or Xavier. Oh wait, you can't, because those are the only ones that have been relevant (at least in my time). Those teams are certainly very good, but saying they are better than the likes of FM, Liverpool, Saratoga, East Aurora, etc. is absurd.

Damn giving Fordham Prep no respect smh.

Im really tired of the CHSAA not getting the respect they deserve the last few years.

Speaking purely XC, I'll give the nod to Liverpool and FM as being better than the CHSAA powers in the last few years, but to say that East Aurora and 'Toga have been better than the likes of St. A's, Xavier and Fordham is quite frankly, and I'm using your words here, absurd. CHSAA had 3 athletes in the top 10 at Feds last year, more than any section. They had two athletes on the podium in the two mile at the indoor State meet. They had 3 teams in the Championship of America DMR at Penn Relays, CHSAA was represented on the All American podium in the 4x800, DMR, AND 4xMile (yes Im talking to you St. Anthonys, and FP) and Xavier miss out on All American honors by less than 2 seconds in the DMR... 2 athletes break 9 in the two mile, Mile State Champ..

Do i need to continue for you to believe that the CHSAA is the single best distance section in the state of New York?

If you go back 5 years St. A's was clearly better than Liverpool in 2010, 2011, and 2012. Liverpool beat them by 13 in the 2013 Regionals, nod to Liverpool. Last year St. A's was unbelieveable in Feds. They would have beat Liverpool if they ran it. Then they beat Liverpool in the Regionals. At Nationals, Liverpool got 4th and SA 8th. I call last year a tossup. This year is too soon to tell. For the last 5 years overall, the SA boys were better than Liverpool. FM is in their own world however!

An interesting discussion.

I am trying to decipher if the claim is that CHSAA > NYSPHSAA or that CHSAA > Section (Blank).

In terms of the former, looking at NXN-NY, which has supplanted the Fed meet for all intents and purposes, St. Anthony's has been the only team with consistency, averaging a third-fourth place finish over the past five years. Other than that, besides Monsignor Farrell, I do not see a CHSAA team placing higher than 6th in the entirety of the event.

In terms of the latter,

In terms of Outdoor track, over the past ten years, Section 3 has had 5 athletes under 4:10 for the full mile, while CHSAA has had 1.

In terms of Indoor Track, over the past ten years, Section 11 has had 7 athletes break 4:15 for the full mile, while CHSAA has had 4.

In terms of Outdoor Track, over the past ten years, Section 11's Northport has had 4 athletes under 9mins for the full 2 Mile, while CHSAA has had 3.

In terms of overall state leaders, the CHSAA is 5th overall for having the most State leaders over the past decade, with only 12.5. Section 1 leads with 19.5

While the CHSAA does seem to be strong as a whole, I would not say it is disproportionately better than any other section, for any given season.

EA was probably a bad example, that's true (though they are very impressive for their size), and I was referring to the Saratoga girls rather than boys. But you contradict yourself here. You can't say that Liverpool and FM (both Section 3 teams) are better than the CHSAA and then claim the CHSAA is the best distance section in NY. Feds does not indicate the strength of the NYSPHSAA because so many teams skip it every year. 4-5 in the 3200 and 4-6 in the 1600 is impressive, but hardly dominant or "unparalleled". A 9:05 did NOT make states out of Section 3 last year. Section 3 won the 3200 and 800 at outdoor states. In the top section on the tullyrunners leaderboard (top 77), CHSAA has 8 runners, a few sections have 7, S2 has 8, S5 has 10, and S3 has 13

CHSAA is very strong, but not the single best distance section in the state of New York.

CHSAA isn't a section, it is an athletic association . It is foolish to compare it to a section of NYSPHSAA since it is guaranteed to get 4 ? Invites to the federation meet regardless of whether its teams are good or bad and sections aren't guaranteed any invites and most don't get any . It's akin to saying "which is the better section, section 3 or Saratoga?"

are you dumb?

Hounddogharrier wrote:

CHSAA isn't a section, it is an athletic association . It is foolish to compare it to a section of NYSPHSAA since it is guaranteed to get 4 ? Invites to the federation meet regardless of whether its teams are good or bad and sections aren't guaranteed any invites and most don't get any . It's akin to saying "which is the better section, section 3 or Saratoga?"

Agreed!!!

Section 2 was a power house back in my HS days.....

I think Tully Runners is a waste of time. You have kids like Donny Glavin and Nathan Lawler who are good athletes, but they are ranked above kids like Noah Carey and Conor Lundy and anyone can tell you that Carey and Lundy are undoubtedly better. So let's not start using Tully Runners to back our arguments.

Instead, let's look at times on the track where everyone is running on the same playing field. You can use the outdoor state meet as your argument saying Section 3 won the 800 and the 3200 (which was won in 9:18 btw, not a very fast time for state), but that is only one race.

Let's, instead, look at the season as a whole and compare the top five runners in section 3 to the top five runners in the CHSAA last outdoor season for the 800, full mile, and 3200. And then to go into relays the 4x800.

800 meters section 3

barber- 1:51

n. affolder- 1:56

s. affolder- 1:56

muldoon- 1:58

kuehn- 1:58

800 meters CHSAA

oleary- 1:54

ulrich- 1:55

saczyk- 1:56

guzman- 1:56

lundy- 1:56

To be honest, I'd say the 800 is pretty even between both leagues. But let's look at the mile and 3200.

Mile section 3

affolder- 4:17

millar-4:19

barber-4:19

petrella-4:20

mccarthy- 4:23

mile CHSAA

lundy- 4:08

tucker-4:16

prunty-4:17

rice-4:17

langer-4:19

Section 3's fastest miler would be on par with the CHSAA's fourth (and note that rice went 4:13 during the indoor season). Section 3's second fastest miler is on par with the CHSAA's fifth. The CHSAA just has more depth in the mile than section 3, and the there's a 9 second difference between the leader for the CHSAA and the leader of Section 3.

3200 section 3

millar- 9:03

affolder-9:03

petrella-9:05

hunt- 9:26

adam- 9:31

3200 CHSAA

rice- 8:54

lundy- 8:55

prunty- 9:10

tucker- 9:15

buckholtz- 9:22

The CHSAA had two guys under 9 while Section 3 did not! If this were a head to head with all ten runners and u were to award points for highest placement (rice-10, lundy-9, millar-8, etc.), the CHSAA would have 31 points over section 3's 24. The CHSAA simply has more depth than section 3 in the 3200, and quality as well with two sub 9 guys.

Lastly, the 4x800.

Section 3

FM- 7:48

liverpool- 7:51

baldwinsville- 7:58

skaneateles- 8:06

newltertford- 8:09

CHSAA

Fordham- 7:43,

St. A's- 7:52

Molloy- 7:52

Xavier- 7:55

St. Joes- 8:05

The CHSAA had some of the most competitive 4x8's in NY, and FM and pool did too, but when we are comparing better sections (in this case section 3 and CHSAA) the majority of the best runners are coming from FM or pool while the CHSAA is more deep.

I've used last years times as a basis for my argument that both section 3 and the CHSAA obviously have quality runners, but the CHSAA is just a lot more deep and boasts better times.

Donny glavin and Nathan lawler beat Noah Carey at the state meet but you still think he's better than them. That's illogical. Chsaa is obviously good on the track but you can't say any of them could hang with Mickey brannigan in the 2 mile. The reason chsaa is bad at xc compared to track is because most of their races are 4k which could actually help them on the track because they're doing more speed work than 5k runners.

Dude that was one race. It doesn't mean anything. Mikey Brannigan for example has lost to several runners who aren't close to being as good as him. That doesn't make them better than him. And what are you talking about that the CHSAA is so bad at 5ks and xc? St. Anthony's went to NXN last year, Lundy, Rice, and Tucker went top ten at Feds, and Prunty and Lundy went sub 15 in the 5k last outdoor. For heavens sake the CHSAA produced Tommy Awad, one of the best NCAA runners around right now! You can't call the CHSAA out at being bad at the longer distances, they're clearly good.

Did you hear what you just said?!?!?

"The reason the Chsaa is bad at xc"

I can't even fathom that argument... I mean we literally had 3 athletes in the top 10 at the federation meet. I can't even start to argue about track because all the evidence is in the post above..

you can't point at three guys and say aha!

if you went by that, Northport HS with three boys under 9:00 the same year is better than entire states.

You have to look at measures more than three boys deep.

ja aber wrote:

you can't point at three guys and say aha!

if you went by that, Northport HS with three boys under 9:00 the same year is better than entire states.

You have to look at measures more than three boys deep.

exactly, you can't point at three guys. That's why my post above with track times provides evidence of depth. Honestly would've gone ten deep if I had the time, depth would've been just as impressive

You can go 3 deep, 5 deep, 10 deep or balls deep, the Chsaa is the deepest section in the state...

Tully runners isn't perfect, but it's by far the best measure of xc ability outside of head to head races. Times aren't everything either, just look at Mo Farah. Aside from Lundy, where are those big performances at the state meet? Surely such the best league in the state could do better than that. Also, how'd the CHSAA do in other years? Show me that they have been.consistently better than every other section for the past few years in track and xc.