Is a long run considered a "workout"?

This made me laugh.

Seriously though,if you can do 4:42 off of just long slow distance, you can probably very easily get to the 4:20s by adding a few good workouts each week. But getting closer to 4:00 you would need some serious talent and speed. There are plenty of sub 15 5K / sub 30 10K guys running 100mpw who can't get close to a 4:10 mile, I'm sure you saw many of them in your college programs.

Bad Wigins wrote:

malmo wrote:

If you are a 4:00 miler at least 85% (perhaps 90%) of your fitness will come from your easy runs, which would mean....drumroll...a 4:42 mile. It's the "icing" that gets you the rest of the way.

so if you can run a 4:42 off of easy runs, you're almost to 4:00 and just need to do some workouts.

I love this. It just seconds my opinion. The most important "workouts" are your normal distance runs ;) :PPP

But to end this: Yeah, I know many people that just call track workouts or tempos a "workout." I feel like it's to their disadvantage. They really believe they "train" just 3 times per week and do "recovery sessions" 7, 8 or 9 times per week. Ridiculous. The easy running gets you in shape, too.

Long runs are a tricky one.. they're like tomato sauce on a pizza

The easy runs are the dough base, the hard workouts are like the strong flavoured olives you get.. the long runs are the sauce... the sauce is important but the toppings get all the accolades...

if you don't have a dough base you'd have one hell of a mess on your hands

takashi yoshi wrote:

I have a theory too wrote:

Here, we understand definition. Mine is correct.

Why is yours correct? What means my definition wrong?

In Russia, is not considered "funny" to speak in fake Japanese accent. You're filled up with crap, my friend.

Only in running are easy runs routinely not called workouts, hence all the overuse injuries associated with running.

Even if you use "vigorous activity" to define your workout, all running workouts are defined as "vigorous activity" because they are over 6 METs or 7 kcals/minute. (IAW ACSM guidelines).

Alan

I will also have to say that every run is a workout.

You're going out and there is some level of work in it.

You can workout at the gym every day.

Some days you will have an easy workout.

Maybe the question should be - is a long run considered a hard day.

You have easy days (recovery days) and hard days.

The long run is more medium.

You normally don't do long runs back to back but you will do a long run after a hard day or a day after a race.

But you don't do a long run the day before a race.

Uhhhh.......Yeah, a 'Long Run' is considered a workout.

Your example of Todd and Alberto are not applicable. Both Todd and Alberto ran their so called 'Long Runs' of 10-14 miles at a light 'Tempo' pace and not slow and easy. Also, they both had very consistent mileage throughout the week with no low mileage days. Todd described himself as having 'Less' talent than many of his fellow competitors and to off set this he simple out worked them. Most if not all of Todd's runs were at 6:00 min or better including the 'Long Run' of 10 or so miles. Alberto had the same mentality. Most elite runners (myself included) have very intense 'Hard Workout' days of which we need a 'Recovery' day(s) of easy running in order to be prepared for the next 'Hard Workout'. The proverbial saying "Train like a Mule or train like Thoroughbred" applies here.

BOTTOM LINE:

A nice long slow easy day of 90-120 minutes is highly recommended for the majority of elite distance runners. This is also very beneficial mentally.

Earth to soul patrol, 6:00 pace isn't "light tempo pace" it's easy -- in fact, more accurately, it's slow as snot.

I don't think it is. To me a workout has to have repeated, timed rests. Run a 400 in x, rest for a minute, run a 800 in x, rest for x, etc... If it's continuous running until you're done it's not a workout. I don't consider time trials or races to be workouts either.

malmo wrote:

Earth to soul patrol, 6:00 pace isn't "light tempo pace" it's easy -- in fact, more accurately, it's slow as snot.

Harsh and dang. 6:00 is near 10k race pace for me. :(

Not that I disagree with you. I am slow as snot. I did a 6:30 pace tempo today and how great it felt to cruise at that speed.

If 6:00 were easy, I could get more miles in per week as a busy Masters runner. Some day maybe...

Now that's full on troll.

On Sundays me and some guys from my team and a few of the local elites who trained in our area (including 3 active Olympians and 2 NR holders) would do a 10 mile run at about 5:45 pace, granted we would close out the last mile in around 4:45. Everyone would be fairly sweaty and out of breath at the end of the run, so certainly not slow as snot.

In Soviet Russia, fake Japanese accent speaks you!

Boris Badenof wrote:

In Russia, is not considered "funny" to speak in fake Japanese accent. You're filled up with crap, my friend.

8:21.72 is slow as snot. Perspective my friend.

Every training session should serve a purpose so every training session you do will be a "workout". Doesn't matter if it's an excruciating interval session or a 3 mile jog; both sessions have their place in your training regime; both are important.

Also Ray and Benson in "Run With The Best" caution against long runs being equated with recovery runs. Even if you jog 16 miles very slowly and apparently make no discernible effort your legs are being stressed simply by running for that length of time. They argue recovery runs should be kept slow and short - although you could do a couple of them in a recovery day.

formerD1 wrote:

Now that's full on troll.

.

No it isn't.

Soul Patrol made two statements 1). "Both Todd and Alberto ran their so called 'Long Runs' of 10-14 miles at a light 'Tempo' pace and not slow and easy" and that 2) "Most if not all of Todd's runs were at 6:00 min or better including the 'Long Run' of 10 or so miles. Alberto had the same mentality". Somehow you can't get past the notion that what is hard for you isn't hard for faster runners than you?.

6:00 pace is ease for both of them. Very easy. SLOW AS SNOT easy. 5:30 pace for them would be easy as well. Everything is relative. Your easy isn't the same as my easy, or Alberto's or Williams'. "Easy" is also a moving target. As your fitness improves 'easy' moves too. I once posted on this message board a list of my morning runs on a measured eight an a half mile loop. The significance of that post was that I recorded the time and distance, then added a subjective description of how the run felt to me -- never once calculating the pace. Then two decades later I crunched the numbers to see exactly what pace matched up to how the runs felt. Golly gee shazaam, sure enough as my fitness improved so did the 'feel' of the runs.

I've trained with scores of world class runners in my life, and NONE of them would say that 6:00 is anything but easy. They may choose to run slower, or they may choose to run faster, but for my peers, 6:00 or even 5:30 would be considered easy.

Mr. Malmo-

I agree with your assessment of 'Easy Runs' change with regard to effort as one becomes more fit. This is true in the beginning of a build up to optimal training fitness/mileage but soon levels off when training fitness/mileage is achieved. Once I hit my optimal training mileage my 'Easy Runs' never picked up in pace. Why? it's an EASY RECOVERY RUN. I've slogged through some SLOW JOGS with a few Kenyans (WR Holders/Gold Medalists) at a much slower pace than your 'Slow as Snot" pace. My point is that Todd and Alberto ran their 'Off' days at a faster pace than most elite runners. And with regard to getting past the notion of 'Faster runners than me', I have PB's faster than both Todd and Alberto in various events and am pretty certain faster than you (minus the marathon because I've never run one). That being said, I'm not trying to get into a 'pissing contest' with you or anyone else about who's faster and better. I'm just pointing out that Todd and Alberto ran the majority if not all of their runs at a harder pace than most.

SOUL PATROL wrote:. My point is that Todd and Alberto ran their 'Off' days at a faster pace than most elite runners.t.

First I've ever heard that. Citation please?

malmo wrote:

SOUL PATROL wrote:. My point is that Todd and Alberto ran their 'Off' days at a faster pace than most elite runners.t.

First I've ever heard that. Citation please?

Citation:

Me, Myself, and I.

I knew and know MANY elite runners and shared MANY off day runs with them.....and not running sub 6:00 minute pace.

I know the Knoxville bike path and Bushy Park in Teddington, England very well.

Bullshit detector went off the roof.