Haile G tells LetsRun.com how he'd beat Mo Farah - "I'd finish him early"

Jefe in the CO wrote:

All that matters over the ages are wins.

Tell that to the Canadians trying to get that national Marathon record.

Tell that to Dennis Kimetto, Wilson Kipsang and so many others who will gladly skip global events in order to try and get a World Record.

And like some posters have said, Mo is facing much softer competition nowadays (yes, a few guys ran sub 12:50 in Paris once in the past).

no, I'm not ventolin, f*** off wrote:

Renato Canova wrote:

Don't think the real value of Mo is 12'53". He ran already 12'57" in 2010, when we worked together for some month in Iten, in Zurich, and now is very much stronger, after going to Salazar. To think can run near 12'40" is something reasonable, such as the possibility of running under 26'30" in 10000m.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&thread=5302291&id=5302709#5302709

Ventolin why do you keep posting this? He says it's reasonable to THINK he can NEAR 12:40. Doesn't mean he can, doesn't mean 12:40, and Canova isn't a fortune teller.

Metric Miler wrote:

Well, I guess that is the fundamental fact in our disagreement. I don't think for a second that Farah is only (lol) capable of around 12:50. His half marathon and 1500m bests suggest he would be faster than that and then just the way in which he has despatched sub 12:50 guys in competitions confirms it for me.

Except that he hasn't dispatched sub 12:50 guys. These guys more often than not show up in as slow as 13:20 shape.

Even if he had, he has dispatched them in sit and kick, slow races which tell you little about whether or not he is a sub 12:50 runner himself. If he had beaten them in races closer to 12:50, then that would be a valid conclusion. But he hasn't.

If you deny any of this, you don't know what you are talking about.

Bekele is such a strong runner that I believe he would have achieved pretty much the same results without pacemakers

we will never know wrote:

World records were set up for Haile and Kenenisa. That doesn't happen these days. We will never know how fast Mo could run 5000 or 10000.

Pootz wrote:

Ventolin why do you keep posting this?

Dipshit, why do you keep calling me ventolin?

Pootz wrote:

He says it's reasonable to THINK he can NEAR 12:40. Doesn't mean he can, doesn't mean 12:40, and Canova isn't a fortune teller.

Dipshit, it's reasonable to think he can run 12:40 because he likely can.

Now refer to my handle and fvck off.

Geb's :55 finish in a 12:41 win.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8TrkL8OqxJU

ttc wrote:

Geb's :55 finish in a 12:41 win.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8TrkL8OqxJU

End of thread. Anyone actually think Mo could do that to Daniel Komen in a race that fast?

Geb had to deal with (and beat) Komen, Tergat, and Bekele in his career. What comparable legends has Mo had to beat in his? No one.

Not only did Geb take the WRs in the 5 and 10, he repeatedly broke them and put them so far out from when he started.

not ethiopian wrote:

ttc wrote:

Geb's :55 finish in a 12:41 win.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8TrkL8OqxJU

End of thread. Anyone actually think Mo could do that to Daniel Komen in a race that fast?

Geb had to deal with (and beat) Komen, Tergat, and Bekele in his career. What comparable legends has Mo had to beat in his? No one.

Not only did Geb take the WRs in the 5 and 10, he repeatedly broke them and put them so far out from when he started.

What legends has Mo had to face since he came into his prime? Can't fault a runner for their not being other legends when he is at his best.

As for the most important sentence, the first one, I honestly don't know. I think Mo has a better kick than Haile ever did. Which begs the question, does Mo have the strength to run 12:40? I really don't think we have the answer to this, or much evidence to indicate either way that he can or cannot.

Without that, we honestly can't speculate. If Mo is a 12:40 flat guy, then I have no doubts he could have done exactly what Haile did to Komen in that video. It's really amusing to me that so many people have this strong gut reaction that Mo can't do that, but I don't think it's based on anything. Mo hasn't been pushed to run fast, this does not suggest he can't run fast if pushed. Nor does not setting up your own WR races indicate this.

fdsafsfasdf wrote:

And the thing is - Geb in his prime COULD finish him, easily. I know you guys like to talk about Farah being the GOAT but really he does not hold a candle to Geb.

The brilliant thing about Farah, is that he knows the tenor of his times, and he runs to the level of competition needed to win, win, win, win, and win.

Geb, much as we love him, did run in the EPO easy era. Unless someone comes out on their deathbed, like a European manager or doctor...we're unlikely to know.

We now live in an environment where on the circuit most 800m runners believe Rudisha is doped. (true).

Geb didn't win one world or Olympic title at 5,000m and Tergat didn't win anything on the track

Geb also ducked doing world or Olympic despite being WR holder and ducked out of xc when he found out he could not beat Tergat

LM wrote:

Without that, we honestly can't speculate. If Mo is a 12:40 flat guy, then I have no doubts he could have done exactly what Haile did to Komen in that video. It's really amusing to me that so many people have this strong gut reaction that Mo can't do that, but I don't think it's based on anything. Mo hasn't been pushed to run fast, this does not suggest he can't run fast if pushed. Nor does not setting up your own WR races indicate this.

You're the one speculating. The fact is that Mo is NOT a "12:40 guy" until he runs it. The "strong gut reaction that he can't do that" is because HE HASN'T EVEN GOTTEN CLOSE TO DOING IT! Why is this so hard for people to understand?

Are you telling me that Mo wouldn't set up a world record attempt if he thought he could do it? Seriously? The man that some are claiming is better than Geb and KB doesn't even care enough to try to break their records? Give me a break.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Geb didn't win one world or Olympic title at 5,000m and Tergat didn't win anything on the track

Geb also ducked doing world or Olympic despite being WR holder and ducked out of xc when he found out he could not beat Tergat

YAWN!!! UKers live the life of Mo. Mo is a Somali who live in the USA to avoid paying UK taxes. He is the least Brit of any athlete there is. Mo is not, and never will be, GOAT-worthy.

Pootz wrote:

Except that he hasn't dispatched sub 12:50 guys. These guys more often than not show up in as slow as 13:20 shape.

Even if he had, he has dispatched them in sit and kick, slow races which tell you little about whether or not he is a sub 12:50 runner himself. If he had beaten them in races closer to 12:50, then that would be a valid conclusion. But he hasn't.

If you deny any of this, you don't know what you are talking about.

13:20 shape? Do you watch athletics? It is clear that you don't know what you are talking about.

Shortly after the World champs this year Kejelcha ran 12:53. In the same race 3 others went under 13. Just in the Beijing heats 8 guys ran 13:20 or better (in tactical races). In the 10000m the top 4 guys ran under 27:05.

One month before London 2012 6 guys went sub 12:50, they did not forget the Olympics were around the corner and stop training.

You don't have to like Farah but trying to discredit him by saying he races only slow runners is false. 13:20 is the entry standard! Britain's number 2 ran 13:10 leading into Beijing this year and came last in the final. There may not be any consistently sub 12:50 guys for him to face but the depth of mid 12:50 to low 13 runners is vast.

not ethiopian wrote:

You're the one speculating. The fact is that Mo is NOT a "12:40 guy" until he runs it.

We're talking about capability, not whether he has done it.

not ethiopian wrote:

The "strong gut reaction that he can't do that" is because HE HASN'T EVEN GOTTEN CLOSE TO DOING IT!

He hasn't run a time trial 5k since July 2011.

As in, before he won any world championship or olympic games medals.

not ethiopian wrote:

The man that some are claiming is better than Geb and KB doesn't even care enough to try to break their records?

Correct.

Metric Miler wrote:

13:20 shape? Do you watch athletics? It is clear that you don't know what you are talking about.

Shortly after the World champs this year Kejelcha ran 12:53. In the same race 3 others went under 13. Just in the Beijing heats 8 guys ran 13:20 or better (in tactical races). In the 10000m the top 4 guys ran under 27:05.

One month before London 2012 6 guys went sub 12:50, they did not forget the Olympics were around the corner and stop training.

You don't have to like Farah but trying to discredit him by saying he races only slow runners is false. 13:20 is the entry standard! Britain's number 2 ran 13:10 leading into Beijing this year and came last in the final. There may not be any consistently sub 12:50 guys for him to face but the depth of mid 12:50 to low 13 runners is vast.

You clearly didn't read or comprehend what I wrote. Try again. Nearly everything you just said was addressed and proven false by my post. Read slower.

Your lack of reading comprehension and math is startling. You think running against 27:05 guys is comparable to running against 26:2x and 26:3x guys? That's just basic math. It's not debatable.

Also, I didn't say he races only slow runners. Why are you lying?

Those 6 guys breaking 12:50 is irrelevant. None of the Africans can maintain their fitness. I already said this. Why can you not understand? I also never did they just stopped training. Why are you lying again? What I actually said was these guys are highly variable. In as little as 2-3 weeks they can lose or gain 20 seconds in their 5000 ability.

So yes 13:20 shape. I clearly watch athletics because 13:20 is what some of these guys ran. I also didn't say 13:20. I said as slow as 13:20. Why are you lying?

You are wrong multiple times. Farah is a great runner, but he has nowhere near the competition that Geb, El G, and Bekele did.

No answer to if Mo could run 12:40?? The answer to this point is 'no'. Pacers & rabbits are available & common, & no way Farah's agreed every time to underperform. Then to kick a :55 off it????

Mo races to win races. He can do that by sit and kicking. Why run a harder race behind the pace setter when you can just jog, kick for 400m, and win?

I get bored of every race being the same, but that onus is entirely on Mo's competition. Mo, more or less, cannot be beaten in sit and kick affairs, why try something that could backfire (if you have potential for 12:40, but have an off day and show up in 12:50 shape but go out at 12:40 pace you're going to crash and burn) when you can get the assured win?

Moreover, I don't think many at all believe Mo can get the WR. What incentive is there to time trial your way to a low 12:4x time?

Correct. Mo is a 12:53 guy.

Because absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Nothing in Mo's racing indicates he wouldn't be capable of running 12:40.

Put another way, if a 16:30 guy in a previous year was now doing 4M tempos in 21:30, and had recently run 4xMile w/60s recovery averaging 5:00 per mile, would your gut reaction really be that there is no way he can run 15:30 for 5k because he has never run 15:30, or even 15:50 for 5k?

With the above runner, much like Mo, I would not confidently state that he could run 15:30; but my gut reaction certainly would not be "no way this guy can run 15:30".

Who said Mo could get the record? If he was confident he could get the record, key word confident, I think he likely would. However, it's a long way from thinking "hey, in the right race I could probably run 12:40 low" to "I got the WR on lock on a good evening". I don't think Mo has any desire to time trial 3s-5s off the WR even if he is capable of it.

We will never know if the has that in him though until someone else decides to attempt the 11:4x at the bell strategy. It just isn't how Mo runs, and since I don't think he thinks, nor do any of us think, he can better KB's time he will likely never run a solo 5k TT.

It is true that is not merely about just time but that also implies Mo has to dominate the marathon. Call me when this happens.

Geb and Bekele could also win by just sitting and kicking, but they didn´t.