What is it like to be a dedicated runner year round in northern new england??

I'm going to refrain from posting my name, but I lived in Northern VT for 7 years, and was able to run some quality times coming off training outside all the time.

I was that crazy guy running in blizzards, in the snow, on trails covered in snow, on snowmobile trails at night in the snow, pretty much every type of weather. In the winter, pretty much all in the dark. A lot of times back on empty dirt roads when it was below 0 and snowing in the dark. Nothing but blackness in the woods on both sides. I enjoy(ed) running in the snow like that. I don't think it held me back at all.

My favorite runs were right after snow storms when the ambient light would be magnified making it semi-bright outside. Others were the really cold, clear, full moon nights well below 0.

I never ran on treadmills (I did a bit on really bad days after I stopped competing, and only because it was convenient) because I hate them. The worst was the first few runs after the snow started and I didn't have my snow legs. I'd fall a few times each run until I got used to it again (usually two runs). I never ran in anything but regular trainers, no spikes or anything like that. If it was clear, I'd wear lightweight trainers, if it was bad just normal shoes.

I'd have a general plan for the week and do the workouts when I could. Some weeks would be only mileage because every run was on snow. That was ok. I ran hard when I could and easy when I couldn't, although running slow on snow was still a good workout, especially up the hills (3 mile plus long hills if I wanted them).

Coming off the winter, I learned to be careful about how quickly I started doing mileage back on the road. I found it easy to get injured changing surfaces like that. Your stride is different running in the snow vs. a surface with traction. If I could stay healthy, I'd be very strong after a winter of mileage on the snow.

And I wasn't alone. There were plenty of other people running outside in all weather, all winter. You're not made of glass. I liked being out there when nobody else was. When everyone chickened out and hit the treadmill, or just sat around all winter. Ask the XC skiers, they make it through the winter outside just fine too.

just a person wrote:

malmo wrote:

No. Sometimes there's a blizzard you simply go outside and run in the blizzard.

That's stupid. If the roads are too slippery your chances of getting injured skyrocket. Most of the time you'll be able to find roads that have been plowed enough, but if it is blizzard and not just a regular snow storm, you should go treadmill.

What is your evidence that your chances of getting injured "skyrocket"? I've never gotten injured running in the snow. Snow is soft. Snow slows you down, so footstrike impact force drops waaay down.

Boston runnaah has it right. Running in the snow is fun. It's peaceful. It's quiet. Think of it as cross-training -- for both the body, and the mind.

Bundle up and enjoy one of nature's simple pleasures.

malmo wrote:Bundle up and enjoy one of nature's simple pleasures.

I love running in the snow, especially at night. If the moon is bright you hardly even need a headtorch.

Unfortunately, I live in Northern England rather than Northern New England so opportunities are rare.

Appreciate what you have guys ands take advantage whenever you can!

Paula Page wrote:

In the last couple years, I have started running the same direction as traffic, because I can't see over the snow banks and small cars are pretty much silent in the powder. I've also learned that long wool socks and a hood make a big difference in keeping generally warm. The last two years, i've had to rotate my scarf because the area over my mouth freezes from the moisture of my breath. Layering clothes goes without saying, but you also have to be careful, because when it's warmer than 15-20 degrees you sweat and freeze. That's the worst, especially with wind.

Same direction as traffic? You want silent hybrids sneaking up behind your back? Not sure how this is sound practice. I'm with you on the other ideas. Be safe.

I consider 35-50F to be absolute perfect running temps in terms of regulating body temperature. That is shorts weather for me, albeit the kind with the spandex inner-brief. For 32-40 I wear Smartwool top with 1/4 zip. Otherwise too warm. 25-32 is pretty darn pleasant, too, with the right clothes although I hate the look of tights. For 10-25 I bring out the lightweight Craft XC sking pants. Great range of motion, far better (and better looking) than tights.

High snowbanks are the only legit deterrent in my world. Dangerous. Running in a foot of snow is good for the soul. 3 feet not so much. Get XC skis or snowshoes out at that point.

Absolutely despise the treadmill.

Can't say I've ever run in the winter as far soutrh as northern NE... but I've run throughout the winter all across Canada, including many places in the high arctic, and every place you can name in Canada that has a reputation for being "cold" in the winter (Edmonton, Winnipeg, ....).

It takes a little while to get your "snow legs" and be confident running on snow and ice, but once you're used to it, there's nothing particularly dangerous about it, at least no more than technical trail running anyway.

For me the only limitations are when there's nothing been plowed after a deep snowfall - you can't really "run" in a foot of soft snow - and when it gets below about -35. You can dress to keep warm for running down to about -35 relatively easily. Colder than that you can do it, but you really need to be equipped like NASA and I find the effort-reward balance reaches a saw-off point about there.

Never, ever trade in a winter run for a treadmill though. I HATE those damn things... Better a day off than a day prancing on a rolling rubber mat. :-)

I'd heavily advocate getting on a treadmill or indoor track and not trying to run on roads covered in sheets of ice. If you have dirt roads or trails fine. Regular concrete and asphalt will have sheets of ice on them after a snowfall if not plowed. Do you want to be that guy who ended up missing all spring to get an easy run at 8 minute pace in January.

I usually break out the snowshoes as soon as possible and hit up the huge variety of trails all over NE. I live in a busy urban area and I really don't like running in storms because the plows are working 10-16 hour shifts through the night and can't be totally trusted to be alert and see you. Even if they do see you, there's a 4 foot tall blade coming right at you and your only option is to swan dive into the bank in some cases. I used to hate the treadmill. I don't use it for easy running. But now I've tempered my mind to handle long tempo workouts on the treadmill. The only way to make it interesting for me is to make it challenging, so a lot of my winter workouts are on the 'mill and I come into the Spring season really fit. It's worth it. Plus, tempo on the treadmill is really nice because you're elimiating a lot of variables like traffic stops, hills, sharp turns, etc. which you have on the road. I'd rather not think about traffic or dangerous footing while running hard.

Pete-You're clearly a badass and I dig that about you, but you can run in a foot of fresh New England snow (different from arctic snow?). Clearly not with your summer-day pavement stride, but it's running nonetheless. I do it whenever possible and it's kind of awesome. Even uphill. Still waiting to be visited by the ghost of Zatopek. -td

Cross country skiing (I prefer the skating method) may well provide better training for running--creating a better base through full body exercise--than running through four seasons. At age 75, after some 600 miles of cross country skiing this winter, I have sharply improved my trail and hill racing performances (my last two trail races were over-70 course records). I have no other explanation at all for why I have been improving through my 70s.

EPO is my middle name wrote:

I took up cross country skiing. That pretty much took care of everything.

teamdoc wrote:Pete-

You're clearly a badass and I dig that about you, but you can run in a foot of fresh New England snow (different from arctic snow?).

I'm more fatass than badass... :-) No more basass than the average Canadian distance runner, anyway. Any winter's day you'll see plenty of people out running where I live, and same in any other Canadian city.

just like the birds..... wrote:

Never understood what people have against treadmills.

I've run in all kinds of weather. I just don't enjoy the cold so as soon as it gets below 50 I'm inside on the treadmill. I ran a race last weekend and it was right at 50°. I wore a hat and gloves.

If you like the cold weather, good for you. It doesn't make you any better of a runner though just because you slogged a few miles in the snow. Same as being in a hot humid area in the summer. Slogging your way to overtraining won't help much when it's time to race.

Oh wow, I'm completely the opposite. 40-50 is the perfect zone. November is my favorite training month of the year. Late enough that we're past the Indian summer, but early enough that there's no snow yet.

Optimal training weather is chilly to start the run, then you shed a sweatshirt after warming up. Then after your first rep on the track your blood is pumping and you say screw it, and peel down to a t-shirt, but keep light gloves on your hands. Endurance training at its finest.

sawtelle wrote:

Seems impossible. How do you do it?

Even southern New England was a winter nightmare last year. As a whole, New England isn't a good place to live from October-March. It's amazing from April-September, though.

To answer your question, it's pretty awful trying to train up here in the winter. Trails are covered in at least six inches of snow until late March, so unless you're snowshoeing, those are un-runnable. Sidewalks are either snowed in or icy, and the roads are narrow because plows just push the road snow off to the sides. Most of my runs are spent hugging the side of the road while cars drive by and beep at me. We also have this amazing phenomenon of brown snow, which is found snow piles that accumulate over the course of the winter and never melt. It's brown because of road sand, car exhaust, and oil. So a lot of times you're trying to slug through that.

There can be advantages to training in snow, especially when it comes to mental toughness, but the amount of ice and lack of road space makes running fast on the roads very difficult. I've fallen in pretty much every cartoonish way you can imagine while trying to hit a pace 20 seconds per mile slower than my normal LT pace.

32-40F is ideal temp, still wearing shorts, but with a hat and gloves.

Some of my fondest memories are running indoor track during the winter and doing long runs through the woods in a foot or two of powder. Mind you this was in high school. But it was super fun.

I love running on winter nights when there are no cars on the road. Even if there is snow and ice, I never have fallen. You just have to have a 'snow' stride.

Just a note for the people saying to run on snowmobile trails....

As an avid snowmobile rider and a runner, stay the f*ck off the snowmobile trails... A very large percentage of snowmobilers (stupidly) drink and drive. This happens at all times of the day and I've seen many horrific accidents of these guys in trees or into other snowmobiles or whatever. Way too risky on the trails where the police aren't looking out for drinking and driving as much as they should. Along with this, when multiple snowmobiles are driving on fresh snowfall there is a lot of snow dust being kicked up. If you're in a pack of 6-10 snowmobiles you can have a hard time seeing the snowmobile's brake lights in front of you, let alone a random runner on the side of the trail. Obviously these 2 circumstances are avoidable by the snowmobile rider, but they're not avoidable by the runner. For your own safety, stay off the snowmobile trails.

Screw your shoes and you'll be safe...have been screwing my shoes and running in NNE for 40 years!

Agree here, and I always felt wrong doing it. I didn't do it much, mostly on the cold nights when the snow would harden up making it very easy to run on, or near the end of the season. Used to see people XC ski on them too.

There was a long flat field near me and I used to see snowmobiles riders pulled over all the time by cops on snowmobiles. I always got a good laugh out of that.

If the roads are really bad I hit the treadmill, not because of the roads but because of the drivers. I love running outside, but hitting the treadmill 1 or 2x a week is better than getting flattened when a car loses control on the ice.

The first 3 miles of every run are the worst. Once you warm up, it's not so bad. Went shirtless for the last 2 miles of a 14 miler last year in 10 degree weather.

The worst part is not being able to run on a lot of the trails and dirt roads that are so great the rest of the year. If you're really dedicated, you won't mind doing all your mileage on the same 3-4 roads for 4 months though.

You just have to gut it out. I don't like treadmill running either would rather run in the cold and snow. Have to be careful though, went out on a 12 miler (MANY years ago) it was 50 degrees, and half way through the run it dropped to 25 and blizzard conditions with a driving wind in my face. I was wearing an uninsulated wind suit (BIG mistake). In about 20 minutes my N^%sack and p#$%s was numb, tucked both between my legs and waddled home. When I got back and took a hot shower..............well I don't need to tell you how painful it was. No lasting damage however :)

OLD SMTC SOB wrote:

You just have to gut it out. I don't like treadmill running either would rather run in the cold and snow. Have to be careful though, went out on a 12 miler (MANY years ago) it was 50 degrees, and half way through the run it dropped to 25 and blizzard conditions with a driving wind in my face. I was wearing an uninsulated wind suit (BIG mistake). In about 20 minutes my N^%sack and p#$%s was numb, tucked both between my legs and waddled home. When I got back and took a hot shower..............well I don't need to tell you how painful it was. No lasting damage however :)

We judge our winter weather by the number of socks...

^^^^^ That's three sock weather :-)