Rate my past season of training.

HSrunnahhh wrote:

This past season, I've been doing around 40-50 mpw. We've done maybe 3 total tempo/cruise interval workouts (3x1600m, 2x2400m, 4x1200) and a whole plethora of 8-12x400m and hill repeats the entire season.

Should we have done more tempo/near 5k race-pace work this season? As my season comes to an end, I feel like I have no experience whatsoever trying to run my 5k pace. I bet I could go out and run a decent mile right now, but I have big doubts about my 5k ability. Almost everyone on our team is underperforming right now.

How many more races do you have?

3 races in the next 3 weeks all on the same course. States is two weeks after the 3rd race, but it's not looking good.

HSrunnahhh wrote:

3 races in the next 3 weeks all on the same course. States is two weeks after the 3rd race, but it's not looking good.

Perfect. Three races means that you can race yourself into better shape; this is the most specific 5k work you'll do. Take one day between races to work on 5k race pace based on previous race -- not too hard, though. Easy running the other days. Then take the last two weeks to get ready for the state meet.

Thanks, I'll give it a shot. Won't let the hope die.

HSrunnahhh wrote:

tempo/cruise interval workouts (3x1600m, 2x2400m, 4x1200) and a whole plethora of 8-12x400m and hill repeats the entire season.

As my season comes to an end, I feel like I have no experience whatsoever trying to run my 5k pace.

Were the 16s, 24s, 12s, and 4s not at 5k pace? I almost guarantee that was the coach's plan. Mileage seems plenty high, and you guys probably race quite a bit. Enjoy the last few races and let yourself peak!

There are lots of ways to skin the cat.

Experience running 5k pace comes from running races. How many races have you run so far?

You can do a lot of good training running 8-12 x 400 on a track, around a field or up a hill. The trick is to have a Summer of Malmo before your season to be able to absorb the work. Other hints include NOT racing those kinds of workouts and ideally using shorter and shorter rest as the season goes on.

We've had a shorter season this year and have only run 5 races with 3 left. Unfortunately, most of those races involved us going out 30 sec faster than goal pace and then falling off really hard at the end.

I agree that the big problem we've had is that most people race the workouts instead of the actual races--trying to run 400 repeats FASTER than mile pace, running what few tempos we've done at faster than 5k pace instead of at tempo pace, etc. We've also done less hill work than in previous years.

I'm still not quite sure what happened this season. I thought I'd at least break 18 by now, but I still have 3 more shots. I'm around 18:20 right now, even though I was able to run 19:00 3 years ago as a freshman. I either improve really slowly, or just haven't been doing the right kind of training.

I'll update after the next race.

According to logs, the 16s/24s/12s were all run around 5:35-5:40 pace, but we've only done each once. The 4s were at or faster than mile pace.

My 5k pace is just under 6:00/mile, but I feel like I should be running much faster than that.

HSrunnahhh wrote:

According to logs, the 16s/24s/12s were all run around 5:35-5:40 pace, but we've only done each once. The 4s were at or faster than mile pace.

My 5k pace is just under 6:00/mile, but I feel like I should be running much faster than that.

Well, you have three more races to do it. In your next race, try this -- run without a watch and just run as hard as you can.

Will do. Might also just be a mental thing. Perhaps I just need to get some guts and leave it all out there.

pemberton wrote:

Well, you have three more races to do it. In your next race, try this -- run without a watch and just run as hard as you can.

that's a terrible strategy for somebody who has been going out too fast in races

try to go out purposefully slow. you'll be amazed how many people you will catch if you go out in 5:40-5:50

+1 absolutely terrible strategy, pretty much worst case scenario

New PR at 18:10, so at least I'm closer now. Went out at 5:40, hit the 2 mile at 11:30, and struggled a bit the last mile. Overall, not bad, but I felt like I was completely out of juice at the end (especially after a tough uphill section).

How do I tell my brain to shut up and keep going? Around the 1k-800m mark to the end, my legs kind of gave up on me and I couldn't surge or pass anyone anymore. Should I have run more conservatively in the first half of the race?

HSrunnahhh wrote:

New PR at 18:10, so at least I'm closer now. Went out at 5:40, hit the 2 mile at 11:30, and struggled a bit the last mile. Overall, not bad, but I felt like I was completely out of juice at the end (especially after a tough uphill section).

How do I tell my brain to shut up and keep going? Around the 1k-800m mark to the end, my legs kind of gave up on me and I couldn't surge or pass anyone anymore. Should I have run more conservatively in the first half of the race?

Not necessarily, but you could try it in your next race and see what happens. The problem is that cross-country courses are different, so it's more useful to pay attention to effort than splits.

If possible, your hard session next week should be something like 5 x 1000m with 400 jog recovery in 3:36-3:40; say, first rep at 3:40 and cutting down to 3:36. A good long rep session might help you better deal with mile 3.

Unfortunately, I think the rest of our workouts are slated to be 400m repeats (our coach really likes them or doesn't know what else to give). I'm still pretty confident in the next two races however.

I did in fact do a 5x1k session on my own the week before my PR race at 3:40 with 90s standing rest. I think I felt pretty spent afterwards. My aerobic system is quite weak from what I understand (18:10 5k not lining up well with 55, 2:08, 4:55, etc. and lack of threshold training). How can I work on this during the offseason besides lining up more miles?

HSrunnahhh wrote:

Unfortunately, I think the rest of our workouts are slated to be 400m repeats (our coach really likes them or doesn't know what else to give). I'm still pretty confident in the next two races however.

I did in fact do a 5x1k session on my own the week before my PR race at 3:40 with 90s standing rest. I think I felt pretty spent afterwards. My aerobic system is quite weak from what I understand (18:10 5k not lining up well with 55, 2:08, 4:55, etc. and lack of threshold training). How can I work on this during the offseason besides lining up more miles?

Add some threshold training. A good workout would be 2 x 2 miles, with 3-4 minutes jogging recovery (cut out that "standing rest" shiz). You can do this or some variation of it every week all winter. Start doing these at a surprisingly slow pace -- say, 6:45. What you want to do, starting out, is to understand the effort. Basically, you should finish this thinking that it wasn't hard enough; the next day you should feel like it was hard enough.

I think 6:45 will give you some room to do them faster over time at approximately the same effort as you get stronger. As spring approaches, I expect you could be doing the same workout at 6:00 pace.