Recruit question. How do you spot a bad program and coach

* What percentage use their 4 years of eligibility

* How many are injured

* How do they do in conference competition

* Do the students seem content or do they put on a grim face

And the coach's forthright honest response to questions you ask. Some coaches try to give you an assurance that is not the answer to your question.

Is their pro that they have been a coach for 30 years?

Is their con that they have had some of the best recruiting classes decade after decade and not made NCAAs except when they had 5 8:50 high schoolers on their roster and still got dead last?

Does their name end in "andoval?"

1. Look at the coach's history. If current team is poor, ask why and what is his plan to right the program.

2. On a campus visit, do the athletes talk about the team or the school. Does the team interact with each other after practice or do they scatter.

3. Is there a vision for the program?

4. how do well do other minor sports at the school do?

5. Look the athletes histories up. Are they people that should have been recruited, or are they space fillers.

Once the coach has set the program ask them to justify every single variable, including the progressive overload. Everything should be for a reason and justified in terms of physiological gains. You will soon spot an below standard coach.

If you go on an official visit and get to spend time with the team, it should be obvious if the program is any good. Just ask the athletes. Also, pay attention to if athletes are improving. You may be recruited by a school that is "bad" but has a strong history of improving athletes. If the kids are getting better and the coach is telling you "You fit into our vision and can be the start of a resurgence/rebirth/new beginning/etc" then that could be a good place for you. There are a lot of good coaches out there in all divisions that coach athletes to improve year after year. Recruiting can be a rough game. Sometimes it only takes one or two kids for a program or event area to take off and become a power within a region. Questions to ask current team members:

"Do you like Coach so-and-so"

"Have you set any personal bests since you've been here"

"How well do you think the team will do this year"

"Why did you decide to come"

Since you won't be going pro in track, go to a school with good academics. If a coach never mentions anything about the university or academic programs that is a huge red flag. You want a coach that wants student-athletes, not just athletes. Good questions to ask:

"What majors are popular with athletes on the team"

"What is the team GPA"

"If I had a class conflict when would I be able to practice"

"What academic support is available for student athletes"

When choosing a school, there should be little to no doubt. If you connect with the coach/athletes and like the school itself, the decision should be easy. Pay attention to everything the coach does. How does he/she carry themselves. How do people around that coach behave interact. When recruits are on campus I know I'm on full display. I don't put up ANY fronts. I only want to work with athletes that are compatible with my coaching style. 9/10 athletes I sign told me they knew when the visit was over they wanted to be coached by me. Other issues like money can greatly influence that decision but if you don't want to work with a coach and get a degree from that school, do not attend. You'll regret it.

Check for rate of improvement. Ask the coach what the ave. rate of improvement is. If they don't know use tfrrs.org to look at their college times and compare how they have done year to year and compared to high school. Many teams have horrible rates of improvement but still get good recruits because they don't check on how people do once they get there (They just know that the guys on the team were good in high school). There are a lot of schools in all 3 divisions that have XC just to fill a requirement for minimum sports requirements and do not care about XC at all (see if the coach is full time). There are many mid major or low level D1 programs as well as DII and DIII programs that have great rates of improvement. Just because a school is in a power conference doesn't mean they have a good running program. Schools like Rutgers, Miami, Vanderbilt, LSU, Kansas State, and TCU are prime examples of big schools that are terrible at XC (esp for the level of talent some get).

Detonate wrote:

* What percentage use their 4 years of eligibility

* How many are injured

* How do they do in conference competition

* Do the students seem content or do they put on a grim face

This is a good start. Watch a practice. Meet the current athletes.

Is it has the coach ever had sex with their athletes? I'd start by avoiding those.

1. Team members improving very little or not at all once in the program.

2. Lots of transferring out or quitting altogether.

I'd say those are the two big ones. Trying to gauge the team culture during an official visit might be difficult, since I would assume most coaches and athletes try to present themselves the best that they can to a prospect.

Yep. I fell for this. My school had two mid 16:20 5k runners from high school and turned them into 25:30s their freshman year....then they never broke 26:00 again. I was so stupid not to look at that. Now I practice on my own and everyone is cool with it because I'm the only one who cares. A bunch of 27:00 8k runners who don't run a mile in the offseason. I'm 24:50s. If I had gone to a better school and had someone to train with, I'd be in the 24:20s. 100 mile weeks alone suck.

Also, don't shy away from any school because of academics. What I mean is, there is hardly and difference one education between Private and Public colleges. The only way you'll find a difference is by going Ivy League. If it's not Ivy, there is hardly any difference (with a very few select situations). I went NAIA because of the "education" and regret every day not going D1.

I sound bitter, but just don't do the same thing I did.

Start by determining if he or she refers to this website for training and coaching advice.

Meet with the coach and separately with some athletes on the team.

Ask the coach what his training philosophy is like, what he expects from runners, and what he'd expect from a frosh.

Ask the runners what training is like get a detailed training breakdown for a sample couple weeks to make sure they aren't over trained, no more than 3 workouts a week, or undertrained - low mileage.

See if the teammates hang out together, train together. Find out if there is a preseason team camp, does the team travel overnight to meets, etc?

what division? i ask because it makes a big difference in how you evaluate a program.

in d1, you should expect failures. i wouldn't necessarily hold it against a coach if some runners don't progress or quit the team. if it's a lot (like over a third of the team), then be concerned.

the point is that, in d1, you either perform or you don't. and, you're going to have to run a lot of miles with a lot of quality. many runners can't handle the load. that's not a bad reflection on the coach per se.

in fact, i'd argue that the best coaches have a lot of failures--they recruit a bunch of guys and see if they make it through the trial of miles. if you survive, you're probably a top 100 guy. if you don't, you're useless to the coach. that's d1 baby.

also, good coaches recruit good hs athletes. sometimes they've essentially peaked in hs. example that comes to mind is andrew springer at georgetown. he was like a 4:01 guy in hs. didn't get much better in college. that doesn't mean that henner was a bad coach. on the contrary, i think he's one of the best MD coaches in the country.

if it's d3 and guys are quitting, then be very afraid.

The Donger wrote:

Is it has the coach ever had sex with their athletes? I'd start by avoiding those.

Or has he/she had sex with your wife? That could be awkward.

Is his name "Coach D?" If so, you're dealing with an idiot.

"I'm 24:50s. If I had gone to a better school and had someone to train with, I'd be in the 24:20s. 100 mile weeks alone suck."

I really don't see how having someone running next to you during practice is going to magically take 30 seconds off your 8k XC time. You are still doing the 100 miles weeks even if they suck. If you think you aren't benefiting as much as you should from the work you put in, put your training up here and get some feedback.

Having said that, I'm sure if you had handled your college choice better, you would be having more fun.

OP,

Pay attention to the turn over rate of coaches at the school. If they have had 3 women's XC coaches in 3 years or 4 men's soccer coaches in 5 years, the school may not pay coaches very well. The coach trying to recruit you may have been there 5 years but if he gets a better offer, he will leave.

Look for Russ Rogers.

My biggest advice would be to pay attention to how the coach talks about his runners. If he portrays them in a negative light (and I mean, not just saying one girl isn't committed or has a bad attitude but who rips on multiple members of the team for attitude/weight/injuries), maybe you should take your talent elsewhere. The team should be a source of pride for the coach even as he/she sees opportunities to improve, not something to constantly tear down.

I also thought the comment about majors was huge. If you're pre-med/vet/law/whatever, have the program's graduates been successful in getting into those professional schools? I know while our program worked around labs, soccer at our school refused to let even science majors take labs during season (I guess we don't really have the luxury of an off-season). Within your major it helps just for planning classes and being successful if you have older teammates who know a department well and can show you the ropes/lend you their books, etc.