2nd Former Nike Oregon Project Massage Therapist Comes Forward And Admits He Had Grave Concerns - Went To USADA In 2012

Proof does not have to be a failed doping test. What has been put forth so far is less than hearsay. It is speculative.

I have been a naive person in the past. But in order for me to feel strongly that the NOP has gained some kind of unfair advantage over their competition, I would like some sort of eye-witness account of such cheating from someone within the group.

As far as the legality of sending pharmaceuticals through the postal service, I hear you. Connect that dot to some clear evidence of NOP athletes cheating, and we will all pull down the Salazar statue together. I just have yet to see it.

JAKIR wrote:

Rojo I'm normally a troll

Wait, you mean you weren't real?

runDirtyrun wrote:

Al Sal's child was used to dose exogenous Test to "never test positive."

Honestly, can someone sum ^this up for me? I watched the documentary while I was working from home and I completely missed this segment. Remember it being there, but not what was said and/or known.

runDirtyrun speaks this as if it is a proven fact. Is that the case or was it another insinuation to add to the fire. It may or may not be, and insinuations burn just as well as facts, I am just asking to clarify.

Jeff Albertson wrote:I just have yet to see it.

Again, you aren't ever going to get an official positive. So outside of an official positive from USATF, what would convince you?

I'm going to pretend that genuine evidence of cheating has yet to be introduced into this ugly story, even though only a fool still believes as much.

jewbacca wrote:

we would just like "detailed outlines" of cheating before casting stones.

Here's a contribution from the Cluemobile: In the real world, cheaters don't make it that easy.

Only a far-gone retard functioning at the level of smearing faeces on himself and those around him would demand the equivalent of an itemized list of infractions, signed by Alberto himself, with the heading "Illegal Doping Shit We Did."

If this is actually where you have set the bar for what you would consider "real evidence," then you should simply quit following and posting about the whole story, because you are committed to making no more sense than a monkey recently injected with massive amounts of ketamine.

Erik the LRC guy has already tried to help folks like you with this. Obviously, he might as well have been talking to a Siamese cat.

Makhdaddy Fan wrote:

JAKIR wrote:

Rojo I'm normally a troll

Wait, you mean you weren't real?

I think the question of whether JAKIR has really stepped out of character to post on this thread or merely had his handle jacked needs a thread of its own.

If this is the "real" JAKIR on this thread, all I can say is, "Dude, you are one of the all time great trolls."

Makhdaddy Fan wrote:

JAKIR wrote:

Rojo I'm normally a troll

Wait, you mean you weren't real?

Ha as if. I'm gonna retire him because there were too many impostors messing up the threads and then they would delete the threads. I'm actually pretty proud that he became so popular. I put a lot of work into him.

If AlSal has been surreptitiously doping Galen (without his consent or knowledge), then how Rupp performs or responds in the coming months will be telling. Maybe that is all that Epstein et al are looking for, pressure to get Galen and others to open their eyes (maybe even AS himself) to what is really going on. Of course, delusion can run very deep, and the odds are against it, but implosion of NOP seems a distinct possibility, unless AS can come up with some startling rebuttals.

Jeff Albertson wrote:

I have been a naive person in the past.

Good thing you got that troubling issue behind you.

Wolf Spritzer wrote:

I Heart Albuterol wrote:

One thing that was interesting to me was that Kupczak spoke of how Salazar changed from when he was around him in 2006 (nice guy) to 2008 (turned all secretive). It makes me speculate that perhaps Salazar started off thinking he could do the NOP thing clean, using superior technology to produce world-beating runners. Then, at some point, he realized it couldn't be done, and turned to PEDs (hence the need for secrecy).

Noticed a similar pattern with an athlete that had been at one time a friend. Barely qualified for NCs for a few years, made some money on the roads and was all open and friendly, but at later phases in career they circled wagons and got all aloof and defensive. Improved remarkably late and made WCs-Olympics, but along with acne and braces.

That would be HGH and Testosterone for sure, probably an EPO user too.

That's a classic combination that works so well for so many. Never testing positive of course...

To Oregon Track members of the time, this is not unusual at all.

In 1977 Bill McChesney lamented that we had a bunch of potential Olympians on our team and yet the sports trainers would mostly ignore us and work on the players on our lousy football team. Bill went out and bought a bunch of massage books from the used bookstores around campus and started teaching himself and other runners how to do massage / sports massage trades. It's not exactly rocket science. Some anatomy, some technique, you can pick it up pretty fast.

Bill had a local carpenter friend build him a special massage, physical therapy table. Bill then taught what he had learned to a number of runners, and sports massage trades spread through a number of the Oregon team. Bill had a severe achilles issue and that was his driver to teach a lot of athletes so he always had trade partners to work on his achilles.

It is no surprise that Alberto learned sports massage.

As for coaches doing massage work on their own athletes.

I've seen many high school coaches do "leg rubs" on their athletes. They probably are not certified massage therapist, but it is a pretty common sight at big invitations.

So Alberto knows massage. Big Woo. Smart Coach.

The baseline assumption that Rupp has been doped without his knowledge seems nearly as absurd as the idea that he's never used heavy-duty PEDs in the first place.

He and Salazar have been working together for 13 years now, during which time Galen has achieved some absolutely incredible things.

Does it seem likely that despite the wealth of prescription drugs Rupp has knowingly taken, he's never questioned anything that's gone into his body?

It was clearly common knowledge that Al Sal toted Anrogel around. If Al Sal has ever rubbed any sort of cream into Galen's burly body during their private massage sessions, does it seem reasonable that the thought never entered Rupp's mind that he might be getting a dose of something a bit stronger than Alberto's loving and practiced caress across his meaty buttocks and who knows where else?

Pshaw, I say. Well, actually it was my grandmother who used to say that, and she died a long long time ago. Still.

dkny64 wrote:

Makhdaddy Fan wrote:

Wait, you mean you weren't real?

I think the question of whether JAKIR has really stepped out of character to post on this thread or merely had his handle jacked needs a thread of its own.

If this is the "real" JAKIR on this thread, all I can say is, "Dude, you are one of the all time great trolls."

Thank you and yes this is certainly me. I registered the handle so you know for sure it's me. If you try and use it you can't. I am definitely JAKIR. I took his name from a Bangladeshi guy who works at the gas station. I was going to make a thread announcing my retirement but decided against it. Two days ago I created a makhloufi will win the 1500m world champs thread but some impostors got in there or guys using other handles like mine and say over the top stuff that got the thread deleted. It's annoying so I decided that was it. I enjoy being JAKIR and it's nice that he's so popular but the run is over. There's no way in hell anyone could have possibly believed that he was real.

Your example is NOTHING like the situation with Al and Rupp. Al had his own massage therapist to work specifically on his runners. They were not off working on the football team or anything else. Most high school teams do not have massage therapists on the payroll so it makes sense that a HS coach would do this.

There is really no valid reason for Al to give the therapist the night off, or take over for them in the middle of the massage.

‘I had a room in the Lance Armstrong building where all the runners would come and see me,’ he said. ‘And I worked with Mo. He didn’t officially start until February 2011 but he started coming out to Portland in the fall of 2010 I believe.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-3136349/Alberto-Salazar-Mo-Farah-s-coach-faces-fresh-allegations-former-massage-therapist-claims-testosterone-gel.html#ixzz3dudsgmxy

Is it possible Mo was already working with Salazar when he missed his first drug test? I believe it said it was in early 2010.

I mostly agree with you, and I don't think they are innocent. I just think the bar should be high for proof. There is too much at stake.For example, "He asked me to get a prescription for an inhaler and use it every day." Not good enough for me. "Here is the doctor's name. I had an appointment on date xyz. Here is the prescription he wrote." Or "here is the inhaler Alberto gave me." That's good enough for me. Alberto was acting suspicious. Rupp was tired then ran fast. Not good enough. I was there on date xyz with Mo when avoided testers, and we went to location xyz until they left. That's good enough for me.Again, I'm not arguing they are innocent. I just think evidence for bans and suspensions needs to be held to a high standard. I'm not sure we are there YET.

I Heart Albuterol wrote:

So I think you might be setting the bar too high in your demands for evidence. The realities of modern doping are that you are more likely to make busts using masses of circumstantial evidence than you are through eyewitness accounts and positive tests.

ICPL wrote:

I actually wouldn't be surprised if Salazar just comes out and admits he was taking Androgel...

I would. He could have very easily made this simple claim weeks ago, after the BBC video.

ICPL wrote:

not for his heart, but just because he wanted to feel better, more virulent, etc. He's weird enough that way.

I think the word you want here is "virile," but your version has a dustenckly appropriate flavor to it.

As more people come forward, expect to hear from Dr. Allison, a Seattle-based massage therapist (Capitol Hill area) who words regularly on Alberto's Salazar from 1999-2008. Michael will vouch for Alberto in that he used the AndroGel on Al for special purposes of virility and stimulazione.

To the poster who asked what, outside of a positive test, would convince me of doping: Someone saying they saw doping take place would be a good start. Where is the Floyd Landis or Tyler Hamilton in this story?Also:

I Heart Albuterol wrote:

It's sort of like, let's say maybe you think your wife is cheating on you. Several of your friends say they have seen her going into a hotel with some young stud. She's been acting secretive, deleting her phone records, acting un-passionate towards you, and various other things that seem suspicious. At some point you would have gathered enough evidence to be satisfied that she is in fact cheating on you, despite never witnessing the act, and without necessarily being able to prove it to the satisfaction of the judicial system. And for many (myself included), sure, I'd like to see more evidence come forth and the whole truth be made public, but I've already seen enough to be convinced that Salazar is a cheat, and should be banned from coaching.

It would take more than the evidence that you have suggested to convince me that my wife was cheating on me. It would be enough for me to ask her if she was, which I guess is where we are with Salazar.

If she said she wasn't cheating, I would believe her. If she explained all of those connecting scenarios, and it added up, I would believe her.

At least I know that you hold all individuals to the same standards that you do the NOP.