Lauren Fleshman speaks out- "I definitely do think that's an ethical violation."

Fleshman needs to STFU. If I thought this was ANYTHING other than a publicity grab, I might want to hear what she has to say.

Sticky or prickly or what ever bars must not be selling and she reps for a niche sportswear company.

She's like a sad housewife who needs attention to feel important

Great self-marketer, but.. wrote:

Fleshman joined Oiselle after 2012, proclaiming "the fire still burns" and all this ballsy-sounding stuff. Has she even broken 15:50 since then?(!)

She ran 33:32 last year at Peachtree. I don't know why you settled on 15:50 (!) as a cut-off point for what might be acceptable for an elite woman with the temerity to sign on with an apparel company, but most observers would agree that a 33:32 on the road is worth a < 15:50 on the track.

Laura who? wrote:

Fleshman needs to STFU. If I thought this was ANYTHING other than a publicity grab, I might want to hear what she has to say.

So, your willingness to accept facts as facts is contingent on your beliefs about the motives of those conveying them? That's a great way to sharply limit how much you learn about the world around you, but I'm not sure how much else it accomplishes.

I am not the first one to say this here, but even if it could be firmly established that Fleshman and Kara Goucher are the whiniest, most washed-up pathetic attention-mongering dingbats in all of sports, this would not affect the accuracy of their statements about Salazar. If you have an issue with the substance of their statements, then by all means feel free to address it. So far, no one seems very interested in undertaking that task.

Apparently you have a reading comprehension problem. I never said any such thing.

I just dont need her comments to form my opinion. I am interested to see if she went to WADA with her concerns or just played nicely for a check.

Alberto needs to come clean. If I thought this was ANYTHING other than a money and power grab, I might want to hear what excuses he has to give. Allergy 1 or allergy 2 or what ever drugs must not be working right, and he works for the NIKE company. He's like a mad pharmacist who needs attention to feel important.

Laura who? wrote:

Fleshman needs to STFU. If I thought this was ANYTHING other than a publicity grab, I might want to hear what she has to say.

Sticky or prickly or what ever bars must not be selling and she reps for a niche sportswear company.

She's like a sad housewife who needs attention to feel important

Fleshman hit the wall in the last year or so. Would not bang.

Don't understand people saying this a publicity thing. Pretty crappy to admit you have been involved with this. Seems more like a cleansing of the conscience than a publicity stunt.

Lauren Fleshman's statement is not a publicity stunt. The diehard NOP fanboys want to make it appear that way. They are few diehards, not counting the members of Salazar's family who are posting in a desperate hope to sway public opinion to save Papa Salazar. The few diehards only care about Rupp running in races, and no one else. It is sad that their interest in track is field is focused tightly on a single distance athlete.

I thought it was a good read. I am left asking what about everyone else?

Should we ask everyone? Ryan Hall has a TUE for thyroid, right. This seems like a conversation about what the rules should be. A lot is centered on Rupp when it's clear there aren't others.

I think Ken Goe's view seemed right. We need answers on testosterone and vials from Rupp. Then the running community should look at rules in TUEs

I generally like Lauren a lot and feel she gets a lot of unfair criticism on this site. It was great that she took the time to explain all of this in detail and show yet another example of Salazar bending the rules for an athlete.

With that being said, however, is Lauren Fleshman a doper? I respect her for coming forward with what had happened to her. She had a choice to make and she went through with a plan to show up to the doctor's in a position where she would be likely to receive the medication. This plan was spelled out to her after another doctor had told her no on the meds. Salazar encouraged this, yes, but ultimately Lauren heard this elaborate plan to get the medication and make the choice to carry it out. That does not sit well with me and I am now inclined to label her a cheater too.

Who is the responsibility on here- Salazar or Fleshman? Most on this thread so far have been praising Lauren for coming forward but isn't she also guilty here?

Laura who? wrote:

Apparently you have a reading comprehension problem. I never said any such thing.

I just dont need her comments to form my opinion. I am interested to see if she went to WADA with her concerns or just played nicely for a check.

I guess I have a problem not only with reading comprehension, but with my eyesight, because I see absolutely nothing in your previous post about Fleshman either going to WADA or supposedly getting paid to talk to the press (as if someone couldn't do both).

I do see that you think she should shut up, with your follow-up post implying that because you, "Laura who?", don't require her input to form your opinion, she need not say anything. Believe it or not, some people are in fact interested in the words of someone who has had direct dealings with Salazar in the context of his being a drug-pusher.

Lauren's dad passed only a month ago and probably has as much to do as anything with her coming forward IMO. She might feel the need to unload her own conscience and feel like she's coming clean for her own part in the matter, even if it's minor. I doubt her need for publicity is the main driver, at least not at this particular time.

Guys, your views on whether this stuff is believable don't matter. The walls are going to come crumbling down. It's just a matter of time.

If I was Sleezy, I'd be more worried about the feds locking me up than I would about USADA handing down a ban.

Teabag Heroes not Prison Break wrote:

Compelling piece and a great window into how the gray zone doping works.

It comes down to this: runners cannot train as hard as they want due to physical limitations, so we abuse the TUE system to train harder and harder.

How is using albuterol or advair or thyroid medicine to train beyond ones natural limitations any different from using Winstrol to do so?

It's doping.

Does anyone REALLY think that using an altitude tent is working within the spirit of the rule?

I found it stunning that Fleshman was proactively pursuing "cheating" by any means necessary, looking for every advantage possible either through medications and/or altitude tents, etc.

Salazar would never have been associated with her if she hadn't reached out to him to help her get an edge.

Fleshman has gone down in my book. Evil intentions.

I find it ironic that Lauren Fleshman tweeted Jordan H to "woman up" and stand up to Salazar during the Grunewald debate but it took her and Kara 7 years to stand up to him themselves.

If she is saying what she did for the asthma mess or taking mess was unethical then she should bear responsibility for it. Same goes for other runners. Of course, Lots of folks have exercise induced asthma. I think Haile and Paula had it. Do we know how much medicine hey took, etc.?

Ultimately, the athletes bear responsibility for their choices.

quote]EugeneRunner wrote:

I generally like Lauren a lot and feel she gets a lot of unfair criticism on this site. It was great that she took the time to explain all of this in detail and show yet another example of Salazar bending the rules for an athlete.

With that being said, however, is Lauren Fleshman a doper? I respect her for coming forward with what had happened to her. She had a choice to make and she went through with a plan to show up to the doctor's in a position where she would be likely to receive the medication. This plan was spelled out to her after another doctor had told her no on the meds. Salazar encouraged this, yes, but ultimately Lauren heard this elaborate plan to get the medication and make the choice to carry it out. That does not sit well with me and I am now inclined to label her a cheater too.

Who is the responsibility on here- Salazar or Fleshman? Most on this thread so far have been praising Lauren for coming forward but isn't she also guilty here?[/quote]

[/quote]

Both. Laurens story is that she cheated the system but she cheated it less than Rupp and the rest of NOP so she is the honest one and the rest are cheaters.

I would like to think Lauren and Kara are honest but everything tells me they were just as shady as the rest of the gray liners.

Im guessing you aren't that bright, so Ill give you the benefit of the doubt. It must be hard to post inbetween your customers at the Taco Bell drive thru.

Kara and others specifically went to the USADA (I misspoke) with their concerns about Salazar.

If Laura is so concerned and sees a huge clear "ethical" violation, my question is did she also report or did she look the other way and cash the checks. Then when she had nothing to lose suddenly decide she had a story. If it's the latter, I stick by my statement that she is a publicity hound. She "blogs" about every controversy in track to bring attention to herself and marginal sponsors.

As such, I ( for me, myself and no one else) don't need to waste my time with her attention seeking antics. I read the report. I've though Mo has bern dirty for years.

Great that you feed Laura's attention hog. You think getting paid is the only way yo benefit??

From the interview:

In 2005, I started having worse symptoms of exercise-induced asthma. I had gone to an allergy and asthma doctor on my own, and I got tested after the season was over in 2004 and didn't fail the asthma test. The environmental triggers [like pollen] weren't there. [The doctor] was like, sorry, you don't have asthma, you can't get a prescription.

I have a hard time believing this. 99/100 doctors would believe their patient and just prescribe an inhaler. Anyone else thinks this is ridiculous?