"I only went to Michele Ferrari for his training plans"
we r living in a material wrld wrote:
For those who don't have much time to read:
Chet Manly, the ProPublica article and other articles combined give at least 3 pieces of physical evidence to back up stories, many of which are corroborated by multiple witnesses, on the public record.
Physical Evidence:
*Alberto's check to massage therapist John Stiner, reimbursing him for shipping him "androgel"
*Magness' photos of 16 y/o Galen Rupp's hemo records showing him taking "prednisone and testosterone"
*A photo of a meds bottle purportedly given to Kara Goucher by Alberto w/ the coach's hand-written "Cytomel" on the makeshift label
For those who want to read more:
First of all, Chet, this is not a trial. To convict in a trial, you're supposed to have evidence (of course, that's not always how it goes, but anyway).
This is journalism. In journalism, a journalist talks to people, on and off the record, gathers as much physical evidence as they can (see immediately below) and then cross-checks and verifies as much as possible (such as speaking with Magness' parents and another AlSal athlete who confirmed Magness' story about Rupp's medical report). Good journalism outfits will edit out stuff that's not corroborated or relevant. In this case, there's both material evidence and a pattern of behavior coming from on-the-record testimony from a number of people who have a lot to lose from lying (Gouchers, Magness, etc), or even from telling the truth.
As outlined above, here are at least a couple examples of physical evidence that go beyond your "vauge and unverifiable stories":
1. Magness' pictures of the "prednisone and testosterone" document
2. The John Stiner Androgel receipt
3. The Goucher/Salazar "Cytomel" meds bottle
Consistent Patterns of Behavior
They also have "testimony" from many witnesses that points to a consistent pattern of illegal behavior. For example, the reported TUE manipulation. Rupp admits to using TUEs and Salazar admits to using TUEs. Well, Goucher has several stories that indicated Rupp and Salazar abuse TUEs. This "alleged" pattern of behavior is similar to other "alleged" patterns of behavior with physical evidence to back them up. Just like w/ TUEs, Rupp and Salazar admit to properly using thyroid and allergy medication and "testoboost", but there is evidence that they improperly abuse them (see Cytomel and androgel and 16 y/o med reports for physical evidence of a pattern of behavior).
Credible Witnesses?
Also, if they lacked credibility, these witnesses could all have chosen to implicate Farah. If they were just out to get Nike and Alberto and the NOP, then they would implicate the multi-gold winner. But no, none of them did. This indicates that they are sticking to events for which they have actual, legit evidence. Of course, a reasonable person (such as myself) will assume that Farah is getting "the best Nike science can offer", especially when he runs and acts like a person chock full of testosterone, and trains w/ and befriends a convicted doper in ETH or KEN (I forget, and don't have time to locate this source). Wouldn't the BBC and ProPublica love to have this evidence against Farah? You bet. But they don't, so being credible journalists, they say so.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-32877702http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-32883946https://www.propublica.org/article/former-team-members-accuse-coach-alberto-salazar-of-breaking-drug-ruleshttp://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jun/03/mo-farah-training-camp-documentary-alleged-drug-use-alberto-salazar-
^^^^^We have a winner. Post of the day so far.
Great post.
Drew McMaster admits to taking drugs
fb123 wrote:
"Kara Goucher, the most prominent female runner in America," ?? I guess that's debatable. I'd go with Allyson Felix or Sanya Richards-Ross.
Ricards-Ross and Felix are sprinters - not runners.
William Windsor wrote:
Extremely important to recognise that Mo Farah is not accused of anything at all.
The UK laws on allegations are a lot stiffer than the US. I think you need to remember that.
andre dawson wrote:
when do the bro-jo's apologize for the rampant denials years back and the "we talked to salazar...." and feel he is clean. That Mo adrenaline story from London that got deleted a few years ago looks relevant again.
Queue ADuck in 3...2...1...
I thought I'd seen it all on the Internet until this. Our entire website has bene ripped to shreds over the years by many because we have allowed accuations against Salazar to be posted on here and now we're being accused of participating in a cover up? Unreal.
rojo wrote:
William Windsor wrote:Extremely important to recognise that Mo Farah is not accused of anything at all.
The UK laws on allegations are a lot stiffer than the US. I think you need to remember that.
And, Mo is on the "road" training most of the time. Tough to witness anything when someone globe hopes constantly.
Salazar, Galen and Mo...if you're reading this (you are!) fasten your seatbelts. it's gonna get ph*cking bumpy
LetsRun.com wrote:
Investigative reporter David Epstein, who helped expose Lance Armstong, has a new story out.
Epsetin, who used to write for Sports Illustrated but now works for Pro Publica, has teamed up the BBC program Panorama and its reporter Mark Daly. The BBC will be airing a story on doping today at at 4 pm ET.
However a web version of Epstein's report is now out. We haven't read it yet but it's entitled, "Off Track: Former Team Members Accuse Famed Coach Alberto Salazar of Breaking Drug Rules"
https://www.propublica.org/article/former-team-members-accuse-coach-alberto-salazar-of-breaking-drug-rulesIt looks like Magness is in the piece. Everyone read it and give us your thoughts.
I know I'm a pedant, but I wish people would be more careful with what they write, especially in threads discussing claims such as these.
Note how in the "post of the day," a check from Alberto to an NOP employee is first called "physical evidence" of reimbursement for shipping androgel (it could have been for innumerable other legitimate services) and then is called "the John Stiner Androgel receipt." A freshman comp essay would handle its sources better than that.
Again, I have no opinion on whether Alberto's guilty or not. I suspect he is and if he is I hope everyone participating has to pay for their misdeeds. But please stop mischaracterizing the information being discussed.
Allan Wells being heavily implicated
Rojo,
In your opinion, based on everything you have read and heard over the years, do you think Galen Rupp has used PEDs and violated any rules?
Nike will survive. Heads will roll. This is a reasonable list of top people who need to accept taking a dive. NOP will be disbanded, and a new Nike entity will be created with Nike allowing greater access to testers to "fix" the problem.
kinda happy, kinda sad wrote:
Salazar, Galen and Mo...if you're reading this (you are!) fasten your seatbelts. it's gonna get ph*cking bumpy
DC Area Runner wrote:
Rojo,
In your opinion, based on everything you have read and heard over the years, do you think Galen Rupp has used PEDs and violated any rules?
The rule violated will be: spirit of sport.
Pongkan et al. Roles of Testosterone Replacement in Cardiac Ischemia-Reperfusion Injury. J Cardiovasc Pharmacol Ther. 2015 May 26
"At present, it may be concluded that chronic testosterone replacement at a physiological dose demonstrated cardioprotective effects, whereas acute testosterone replacement can cause adverse effects in the I/R heart."
Nike will survive... wrote:
Nike will survive. Heads will roll. This is a reasonable list of top people who need to accept taking a dive. NOP will be disbanded, and a new Nike entity will be created with Nike allowing greater access to testers to "fix" the problem.
kinda happy, kinda sad wrote:Salazar, Galen and Mo...if you're reading this (you are!) fasten your seatbelts. it's gonna get ph*cking bumpy
This is 100% completely false. Nothing in this film suggests that they are going to be able to deliver any FACTS about whether or not Salazar/NOP are doping. NOP can deny allegations forever-they already have.
Read the articles. Others have gone to USADA and WADA about NOP before. All this will do is make people think/react.
And still Rupp and Mo are SIGNIFICANTLY slower than the 5000/10000 WR holder.
Were you able to get rid of the ads covering the picture?
row row rowbury your boat wrote:
Nike will survive... wrote:Nike will survive. Heads will roll. This is a reasonable list of top people who need to accept taking a dive. NOP will be disbanded, and a new Nike entity will be created with Nike allowing greater access to testers to "fix" the problem.
This is 100% completely false. Nothing in this film suggests that they are going to be able to deliver any FACTS about whether or not Salazar/NOP are doping. NOP can deny allegations forever-they already have.
Read the articles. Others have gone to USADA and WADA about NOP before. All this will do is make people think/react.
Ever heard of Lance Armstrong?
The documentary just took an interesting turn - the journalist is trying EPO.
Adblock or adblock plus add-on in your browser. Sometimes there are little "x"s to click on.
Dirty South wrote:
The documentary just took an interesting turn - the journalist is trying EPO.
I love how he covered the ethical dilemma within himself in taking EPO for the purpose of his documentary!
I’m a D2 female runner. Our coach explicitly told us not to visit LetsRun forums.
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion
adizero Road to Records with Yomif Kejelcha, Agnes Ngetich, Hobbs Kessler & many more is Saturday
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
Guys between age of 45 and 55 do you think about death or does it seem far away