David Epstein/Pro Publica/BBC Story: Former Team Members Accuse Famed Coach Alberto Salazar of Breaking Drug Rules

dsmond wrote:

Thought 2012 10k was to good to be true.

Whoa, does that actually mean the Bekele brothers are Gold and Silver?

This whole thing really hurts to think about because I genuinely did and do like Rupp's performances. Watching a white guy compete and beat the Africans at their own game is still satisfying.

Er... wrote:

Here's my question: what will it take for USADA or WADA to get involved seriously? (If they aren't already.) Will "malmo says Alberto told him there was androgel in the room?" cut it? Is this really all we have on the androgel?

What does WADA with it? Alberto can use Androgel. I'm just verifying Stiners story that there was Androgel and that Alberto told him it was his, because Alberto told me the same thing in Aug 2013.

"I compete in amateur triathlons. I assume all the athletes I compete against are clean"

- How naive is this guy?

perry mason's daughter-in-law wrote:

If I remember right, Rupp was drug tested over 20 times last year and came up clean on all counts. This smells of fishy slandor to me. Could very well end up in court if someones name/reputation is shat upon just to prop up low tele ratings and all.

How much longer are people going to keep perpetuating the myth that "never failed a drug test" means ANYTHING? It means nothing. Less than nothing, if that's possible.

Two quick examples: Lance Armstrong never failed a test. Marion Jones passed 162 tests during the time she was taking EPO, HGH and a designer steroid.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Zat0pek wrote:

perry mason's daughter-in-law wrote:

If I remember right, Rupp was drug tested over 20 times last year and came up clean on all counts. This smells of fishy slandor to me. Could very well end up in court if someones name/reputation is shat upon just to prop up low tele ratings and all.

How much longer are people going to keep perpetuating the myth that "never failed a drug test" means ANYTHING? It means nothing. Less than nothing, if that's possible.

Two quick examples: Lance Armstrong never failed a test. Marion Jones passed 162 tests during the time she was taking EPO, HGH and a designer steroid.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Agree.

Canova, where are your science and research studies showing that Rita is just an example of placebo effect?

Canova, We have gone back and forth once before, we don't need to do it again here. I just want to make this point for everyone else reading:

You're a smart person. As a successful coach, you know the difference between theory and practice. You post like you subscribe only to what has been controlled, peer-reviewed and published, and ignoring the accumulated practical knowledge over decades of informal tinkering, trial and error, beliefs and mistakes of athletes and coaches. You are a successful coach because you know when to use science, and when to use the intuition based on practical experience and learned patterns.

So when you deny doping, especially EPO, by retreating to the realm of science, I believe you are being disingenuous. You cannot respect the practical experience, as you do while coaching, and then toss it aside when talking doping. You cannot rely on practical experience while making coaching decisions and applying your philosophy, and then demand only science while ignoring experience (and common sense) when it comes to doping.

Canova's position is a "Heads: I win, Tails, you lose" attitude. The process for making his argument runs contrary to his own practices as a coach. And he knows it... He is being manipulative, and hiding the reality that would only damage his reputation.

It is no longer debatable why Rupp has been the most tested runner in the US since London. Clearly what Magness told USADA has subjected Galen to extreme scrutiny.

Renato Canova wrote:

About Mr. Magoo and Chet Manly, who are only able to insult but not to produce any scientific info, I don't want to waste my time to reply to...

I found this part of the reply rather funny.

Renato Canova wrote:

However, what he said doesn't exclude the fact that everything Alberto is doing is inside the limits of legality.

This is the whole deal for Alberto. Get them a TUE, stay within the testosterone normal range, etc., give them 50 ml injections per day, all within the normal limits and legal. The methods, however, might get him busted.

ttc wrote:

Zat0pek wrote:

How much longer are people going to keep perpetuating the myth that "never failed a drug test" means ANYTHING? It means nothing. Less than nothing, if that's possible.

Two quick examples: Lance Armstrong never failed a test. Marion Jones passed 162 tests during the time she was taking EPO, HGH and a designer steroid.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Agree.

incorrect.

Lance did fail drug tests. Looks like at least four times. The cycling bosses let him off.

Jones failed on an A sample but her B sample cleared. So technically she never failed.

Er... wrote:

Agreed--this makes no sense. Salazar was providing an unfair advantage to some of his athletes but the most prominent female distance runner in America was an exception?

gwalkerruns wrote:

Kara comes out looking fishy at best in this. She wants to come off as the clean whistleblower but for us to believe that we have to believe the following.....

1. She ran with Salazar for years but did not dope herself.

2. She didnt know about the doping until near the end.

3. She won a medal at worlds without doping but beat others who did.

Not buying it. Perhaps she knows her competitive days are over and this will raise her profile....

Friend heard from an a former NOP runner that Kara wasn't clean when she was with NOP, and left to clean up. I think that would be a much more interesting story, and if it's true, I wish she would tell it.

yoyomama wrote:

It is no longer debatable why Rupp has been the most tested runner in the US since London. Clearly what Magness told USADA has subjected Galen to extreme scrutiny.

He is even more tested, if you count the internal tests conducted on NOPe's dime.

rumor train wrote:

Er... wrote:

Agreed--this makes no sense. Salazar was providing an unfair advantage to some of his athletes but the most prominent female distance runner in America was an exception?

Friend heard from an a former NOP runner that Kara wasn't clean when she was with NOP, and left to clean up. I think that would be a much more interesting story, and if it's true, I wish she would tell it.

hard to sort the timing, but probably salazar's attitude was that if kara could medal without drugs, go to it. So probably salazar didn't propose anything fishy when Kara won a bronze in 2007 WC.

but after the baby and when she wasnt' running well...that's when salazar might have stepped in with the drug solutions.

again, I'm not sure on the timing.

in Galen's defense... wrote:

I think it might be a good idea for everyone to done down the bitterness towards Rupp. For one thing, obviously, there is still a lot of uncertainty about what he may or may not have done. But if it turns out to be the worst case scenario - Rupp has been taking PEDs since high school - it should be remembered that he is something of a victim. Think about it - a 14-year-old kid is has a world-famous runner/coach pluck him from the soccer team, take him under his wing, and promise him the world. How much moral and ethical judgment can he be expected to have in such a situation?

This is so true. It wasn't hard to predict the torch-and-pitchfork crowd would stage a huge rally over this (not that there shouldn't be outrage if this stuff is true).

BUT, if they'd been in Rupp's shoes, I bet a lot of the people who scream the loudest on this board would have fallen prey to Salazar's romancing as well.

I think if it does come out that this is all true, we should reserve the most contempt for Rupp's parents. If he was on a professionally administered drug regimen in HS, there is no way they were unaware.

And if all this went on with their blessing, Galen was a sitting duck.

HGHed wrote:

eurodonkey wrote:

My brother nearly died of asthma when young and they gave him 'roids for a year to build up his lungs. I see nothing new or suspicious about this particular claim.

Except for the fact the prednisone is a performance enhancing drug. I don't care if he had a TUE or not, it does aid performance.

I take prednisone almost every time I have an ulcerative colitis flare. Maybe it is a performance enhancer, but it would do a number on my bone strength and make running difficult when I was on it for extended periods of time.

Mr. Magoo wrote:

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

Update:

http://www.oregonlive.com/trackandfield/index.ssf/2015/06/accusations_rock_alberto_salaz.html

How much more does Ken Goe make as an unapologetic shill for Nike and the University of Oregon then he does as a reporter? It's kind of a shock to the mental system to read the genuinely professional work of David Epstein and then collide with this amateur-hour horseshit.

I posted the link because it included Salazar and Rupp's statements.

Again, trying my best to look at both sides because I really don't "want" them to be guilty, but so far all we have from the NOP side are a couple of carefully-crafted written statements and Centro's I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I Twitter spat with Willis.

I reflect back to 1996. Essentially Salazar's first time out of the gates as a coach, and not only is Mary Slaney diagnosed with asthma at the age of 38 (after over two decades competing at a world class level), but she's busted for a high T/E ratio at the Olympic Trials.

A quote from Slaney: "I feel like my old self again" said Slaney after her victory in Atlanta: "I can go out and be aggressive and not run out of steam. Since I began treatment for my asthma there has been a big change. I feel a lot more confident."

Malmo, why should we believe that Salazar talked about these things with you? Many years ago, you finished well behind him in some races. That's it. You haven't exactly set the running world on fire with your great running or coaching accomplishments since then. No offence, but you never did.

What evidence do you have that these conversations occurred? Did you tape them?

Malmö? wrote:

Malmo, why should we believe that Salazar talked about these things with you? Many years ago, you finished well behind him in some races. That's it. You haven't exactly set the running world on fire with your great running or coaching accomplishments since then. No offence, but you never did.

What does Malmo's running or coaching accomplishments have to do with whether he is telling the truth or not?