David Epstein/Pro Publica/BBC Story: Former Team Members Accuse Famed Coach Alberto Salazar of Breaking Drug Rules

Nike has little to gain by looking into this; they're better staying off to the sidelines and waiting for something to happen. The major majority (or entirety) of the shoe buying public will not take notice of this. However, running store owners/employees and could further drive Nike down in the run specialty market. But, not to the point that Nike will ever really care.

Nike have harbored drug cheats for years and it improves their bottom line.

When and if an If an athlete gets caught - Nike will cut them, release a statement, and go on with business as usual.

The public perception of Nike does not rest on the NOP. Livestrong was a much bigger and more visible organization and they waited until the last possible second to drop Lance.

At the end of the day, only an investigation by USADA (ala Lance) will find the truth.

I doesn't sound like you are coming to see me. It sounds like the same excuse bs. I'll plan to leave.

In both cases supported suggestion led to further investigation and eventually verification. And in both cases there was (in my opinion) a lot of phony moralistic outrage by people who didn't really care about the state of the sport or the people involved. So you're not wrong. Like I said most people are just going to get the bare bones of this story. That makes U.S. distance running look really bad. We can only hope that some kind of long term change in the sport comes about and this isn't just people's lives getting torn up for nothing.

That being said, personally I do not feel that bad for the people in question. I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up yet, but IF the allegations of doping in high school were true then that means he was likely dirty while competing in the NCAA for The University of Oregon. That, for me, is more upsetting than learning that he's been doing this as a pro. You can make the case that you have to use PED's to be competitive in a Diamond League 10k. But the majority of people he was beating were clean in college. Maybe he would have beaten them anyway. We'll never know.

And I have even less sympathy for Salazar. If he turned a child into a human science experiment in order to create a better distance runner then he's a piece of crap. A bunch of people have said in this thread that the 13:37 has always been a big part of the pro-Galen argument just because it's so nuts that a kid that age could be on a regimented doping program and I've always thought that too.

So, like I said, I really hope this is more than just the NOP getting in some kind of trouble. But don't feel too bad for these guys. They made a choice a long time ago and now the whole sport looks bad because of them.

WHY THE F CANT I WATCH THIS SHIZ ANYWHERE?

Somewhere, someplace Jerry Schumacher is smiling.

Salazar needs to be booted from this sport FOREVER.

Salazar IS DONE. A permanent ban should hammer down on his head.

Rupp will be banned. He may serve his suspension --4 years?-- and think about coming back but I think he will decide to disappear.

Farah will be banned. He will decide to retire from the sport.

Other than the top three are the heads that will satisfy the USADA, WADA, and Nike, that they can publicly claim they cleaned house.

Other NOPers will receive lesser bans, or none at all, if they help with the upcoming investigation--like in the Armstrong case.

deep arrow wrote:

Everyone is bagging on Goucher for saving an old medice bottle as "why would anyone do that"?

Take a look in most medicine cabinets. The expired and unused drugs will shock you. Maybe Kara decided not to take the drugs and simply left them in a drawer.

The Goucher's likely signed a non disclosure agreement with Nike, I would think. I'm curious what the legal repercussions will be on their end, if any. Anyone have thoughts on this?

Also re:

"I had a conversation with Galen in 2011 in the British training camp [at the World Championships] in Daegu," she says, "and he told me how tired he was and how exhausted he was, how he was so excited to have the season be over." Three weeks later, Rupp broke the American 10K record. You don't get to the end of a long year burnt out and take two weeks off and come out and run the best race of your life," she says. "That's not how it works. You have to rest. You have to recover. You have to start all over again."

Isn't this what happens at the end of every marathon training cycle? This isn't evidence.

I suspect NOP is operating in a gray area and I would not be surprised at any positive tests (aside from the stupidity it takes to get caught). But the "evidence" provided is pathetic.

i.c. weiner wrote:

Isn't this what happens at the end of every marathon training cycle?

No.

i.c. weiner wrote:

But the "evidence" provided is pathetic.

No.

i.c. weiner wrote:

The Goucher's likely signed a non disclosure agreement with Nike, I would think. I'm curious what the legal repercussions will be on their end, if any. Anyone have thoughts on this?

Non disclosure does not prevent you from talking about illegal activities. Nike lawyers would not go after someone talking about that. They would be stupid to try. Nike lawyers would do better to just make sure company secrets are not revealed to the public (competitors). But secrets would be something like, trying out an new shoe, or gear. Use of PEDs should not be claimed as a company secret.

Bigfoot Investments wrote:

agip wrote:

Hey Bigfoot.

yes, I am assuming that there is a big nasty, and what the Gouchers and Magness and the 'actor' are saying are true. Those are clear violations. using testosterone on his son and testing him? using unprescribed prescriptions? surreptious mailing of pills? a chart saying rupp was using peds?

Maybe I miss your point...

Have you read the epstein piece?

Missing my point? Maybe because I don't really have one. You just sounded more confident in the BN (Big Nasty) than I am. And I am not defending NOP here, just admitting my own ignorance.

Regarding the Epstein piece, I read a bit and then got busy on other things. Guess I'll have to finish reading it now.

Cheers

OK - read the report. A fair amount of smoke. Certainly a few "threads" to pull on. So, you're probably right.

I guess the whole thing should come as no surprise. The incentives in sport are such that cheating is virtually inevitable. That does not excuse cheaters of course.

(sigh)

Nobody has highlighted what I thought was the most damning allegation in the article. AlSal supposedly used HIS SON as his guinea pig for microdosing. He no doubt thought the risk to his kid was small and he was probably right. But (assuming it's true), why did he pick his son instead of one of the other 300 million people in the U.S.? Answer: because he thought his son would be the last person to flip on him. But again, the difference in risk is small (he has other people in his inner circle). So if the story is true, true, he had a choice between a low probability risk to his kid and a low probability risk to himself and he asked his kid to take the risk.

To be charitable, he lives by different rules than most of the rest of us.

Non Disclosure wrote:

i.c. weiner wrote:

The Goucher's likely signed a non disclosure agreement with Nike, I would think. I'm curious what the legal repercussions will be on their end, if any. Anyone have thoughts on this?

Non disclosure does not prevent you from talking about illegal activities. Nike lawyers would not go after someone talking about that. They would be stupid to try. Nike lawyers would do better to just make sure company secrets are not revealed to the public (competitors). But secrets would be something like, trying out an new shoe, or gear. Use of PEDs should not be claimed as a company secret.

Kara has little 'evidence' and also stayed with Salazar for 7 years! If he was really doing something suspicious she and Adam were more than complicit for a long time if something was really going on. So if she is trying to make out like NOP are doing shady things all the time and she was just above it all, that seems like non-sense. The most damning claims come from Mr. Magness. Although the 3 counts of items he has are not good, it is going to be circumstantial at best.

We already knew Alberto was using every edge he could gain. I somehow highly doubt he crossed a line as he seems calculated not stupid. It seems like every time he thought he might get into a legal issue he first consulted with WADA and USADA. So although we are seeing all of these things come to light, there might be litany of historical official contact he has made with them and this 'big news' is all us not liking how he is climbing the mountain. He uses things that are not officially banned, but aren't simply taking multi-vitamins or other seemingly innocuous but more palatable things.

So sorry to Rojo for not thinking this is going to be a yawn, but it seriously might turn out to be as even the article notes that many claims have been made and then investigated. So this seems like more of smear campaign as it isn't coming from an anti-doping agency but the BBC.

....... wrote:

Nobody has highlighted what I thought was the most damning allegation in the article. AlSal supposedly used HIS SON as his guinea pig for microdosing. He no doubt thought the risk to his kid was small and he was probably right. But (assuming it's true), why did he pick his son instead of one of the other 300 million people in the U.S.? Answer: because he thought his son would be the last person to flip on him. But again, the difference in risk is small (he has other people in his inner circle). So if the story is true, true, he had a choice between a low probability risk to his kid and a low probability risk to himself and he asked his kid to take the risk.

To be charitable, he lives by different rules than most of the rest of us.

great point here. Salad-bar is a lance-esque psychopath

Does this mean that Nike will put all of the NOP gear on clearance? I hope so it will look very nice in my closet next to my Livestrong gear.

I don't know what to make of the doping allegations yet (could be a bunch of disgruntled former employees making a mountain out of a molehill). But I do wish Mary would stay away anyway. The reason is pretty much illustrated in this cringeworthy video.http://nxn.runnerspace.com/eprofile.php?event_id=13&do=videos&video_id=128558(It's all about form and mechanics)

hart crane wrote:

How does Mary Cain's departure fit into this narrative? Interesting timing. I hope this convinces her to stay away.

Cain, Levins, Centro, Hasay, Rowbury, etc. etc. all need to get away right now. Farah you're screwed. It is time to roll on Salazar. It is clear that the general public opinion and the opinion of inner elite track circles is that Salazar is running a dirty operation.

Eventually someone else will come out with more evidence and someone will be brought down. It is only a matter of time. The money trail is usually what starts the dominos falling - see BALCO and Lance.

If Lance and the Postal Service taught us anything, it is that the other team members really should be on the other side of the law when USADA comes calling. Everyone may not be doped as heavily as Rupp, but don't let your reputation be sullied for the rest of your life by Alberto.

I hope you are "smart" enough to see the irony of your post. Everything you post is through your biased pro-Oregon filter to fit your agenda.

Chet Manly wrote:

Shouldn't they actually have some evidence rather some vague and unverifiable stories?

What you are speaking of is heresy.