A runner absolutely must obtain the ability to train at 120-150 (or more) miles per week by the peak of the career in or

Syd wrote:

You can do the hard/long method if you want to but what is the point when the hard/fast method takes less time and produces the same results? The hard/fast methods of Coe also produce much more longevity as far as competetive running goes. Jim Spivey, who was coached by Dr. David Martin (who worked with Peter Coe) had one of the longest and most consistent careers in american history. He was able to run 13:17 in 1983, and ran 13:15 11 years later in 1994. No Lydiard mega mile runner could ever hope to have a career that long, they would get burned out, injured, or whateveer.

Both Bill Baillie and Jeff Julian had careers that were that long. So did Rod Dixon who wasn't coached directly by Lydiard but followed a similar method.

He had the potential to.

Does it seem illogical to you that a sub 3:40 miler would come from a 1:41 800m runner?

Are charts perfect? No. But they do provide a guide that is more helpful than not.

"Does it seem illogical to you that a sub 3:40 miler would come from a 1:41 800m runner?"

No it doesn't seem illogical, but I don't think that the two times are perfectly correlated. After all, El G is the mile world record holder, and I have never seen him get close to 1:41 in an 800m. He seems to be more of a 1500m/3000m type. Will a 1:41 800m runner ever run 3:38 in the mile? Maybe, but I not going to say anyone was or is capable of it until they get within 2 seconds of that time. As far as the usefulness of charts goes I have to say that some are better than others. I have noticed however that the charts seem to be the most skewed when you get to the fastest performaces. For example I think Jack Daniels VDOT are a good guideline, but take a look at the last line of the VDOT performance chart, and tell me if you think those times are equivalent and accurate.

I haven't found Daniel's tables to be as accurate. The training paces that he gives for the performances are off in my opinion.

As for the type of runner that will break those times, I believe that he will need to have that 800m speed in order to run sub 3:40. True, El Guerrouj hasn't run near 1:41 and has run 3:43 but I don't see him making any more major strides against his records -- at least he can improve his ability over 800m.

The best thing about this argument is that everyone qualified or not has an opinion. Charts are total bullshit as they almost always are linear or mathmatical in their making. To say Coe could have run 3:38 for a mile is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read maybe. The Jim Spivey example is the best I have seen so far, Jim actually posts on a "competing " web site under the Illinois board, go ask him directly , he will repsond , he is great that way. You can get different results different ways..until someone is the Most revolutionary guy/gal out there this will continue, maybe it's Razcko for example, maybe not , let's see what Webb runs in 5 years not tomorrow.You want a model for moving "up" while getting older, ask Rod Dixon one of my personal favorites. why he is not coaching Elites is beyond me, he might be the best model going.

King99, while someof my posts on this thread have showed my personal bias towards Coe, I said almost the exact same thing on my first response to this thread- ("different strokes for different folks"). Not every runner is going to run well under lydiard, not every runner is going to run well under coe, and thats the great thing about the US college system, there is a HUGE variety of coaches out there. I think one of the bigger problems with US running is once you graduate the number of "elite" coaches available is signifigantly lower...

Go to the "competiting" website on the IL board under the thread "Who are the greatest runners in IL history?" Quite possibly the best running thread i have read on any message board.

OK--try to offer something different to this thread or don't post at all--OK?

well 7347928157984 posts later and conto still hasn't had his original questions answered. too bad all this getting in jk and wejo's face has resulted in them blowing off this thread, some of us actually wanted to hear them out. jk if you are still checking this and i doubt you are, please address mike's questions.

T-man: "so how much are we talkin here?"

Cop: "let's just say it's less than the national debt, and more than i make in a day"

T-man and Conto: "what the f*** does that mean?"