I haven't gone to ESPN ... yet
Having said that, I think the gauge issue is pretty bad on Wells. They did take Anderson at his word for everything except the one thing that helps the Patriots.
I haven't gone to ESPN ... yet
Having said that, I think the gauge issue is pretty bad on Wells. They did take Anderson at his word for everything except the one thing that helps the Patriots.
dc-wonk wrote:
Imagine Usain Bolt saying, "I just prefer to have my starting block positioned a couple meters ahead of everyone else." Any question about whether that would be cheating?
Saying that is not cheating.
Imagine Tom Brady saying, "I just prefer my footballs to be inflated below the legal limit." If he ever said that, which I doubt, it wouldn't be cheating. And since there's no evidence that he ever acted on that imaginary wish, we MUST conclude that he did not cheat. Case over.
094jsdf wrote:
The NFL KNEW AHEAD OF TIME that they were going to test the footballs for this game MORE CAREFULLY than they did for any other game and yet they didn't bother to calibrate their two gauges. We know this because they gave different readings.
The Pats can talk all they want to about deflating footballs. It is just talk. The question is DID THEY DEFLATE THEM FOR THIS PARTICULAR GAME? The Wells report shows that they had the motive and opportunity but shows NO DATA from a certified calibrated gauge. The league doesn't even KNOW which gauge was used before the game.
Case over. We have NO IDEA what the pressures of the footballs were that day at any time.
+1
Disclaimer: I like an NFC team and have no feelings towards the Pats.
Oh, and don't forget that the refs didn't write down the numbers before the game. The statistical analysis in the report assumes that every Pats ball measured exactly 12.5 and every Colts ball exactly 13.0 by BOTH gauges before the game. Robert Kraft ought to pay whatever cost necessary to track down those gauges and challenge Goodell and the lawyer to a live tve event where those guys both use each gauge to measure a standard.
In addition, it appears the refs brought the footballs back inside to measure them at halftime. If the balls didn't equilibrate to the room temperature prior to measurement at halftime...another oops for the NFL. Was this even considered in the report?
The other circumstantial evidence in the report is pretty damning though. The NFL ought to restore the draft picks (how the heck did those come into play?), cut all the other penalties in half and move on.
Perry Mason wrote:
Saying that is not cheating.
Imagine Tom Brady saying, "I just prefer my footballs to be inflated below the legal limit." If he ever said that, which I doubt, it wouldn't be cheating. And since there's no evidence that he ever acted on that imaginary wish, we MUST conclude that he did not cheat. Case over.
Except, of course, that it is not. Your cute little declarations do not change that fact.
In 2006 Tom Brady and Peyton Manning helped create the rule which made it possible for each team to use their own balls when on offense:
So far we have:
1. Tom Brady helped create the rule making it possible for his team to work on the footballs he used on offense.
2. He is on record saying he liked under-inflated footballs.
3. The footballs for the game in question were handled by a guy who at one point was called "the deflator".
4. The balls in that game were found to be under-inflated according to NFL guidelines.
Tom Brady went to extraordinary lengths to make it possible for him to use under-inflated footballs. He even went so far as to get the rules changed.
This was no accident.
This was not a problem with pressure gauges.
This is not a weight loss issue.
Brady conspired to break the rules and he got caught.
Moving forward the Patriots should be allowed to drop the pressure to the lowest legal limit while being watched very carefully.
This is equivalent to corking the bat or waxing the ball in baseball. It should be punished, but it's better described as "gamesmanship" rather than a federal crime. But if the Patriots want to hint that everyone breaks the rules, right now would be a good time to prove it.
Brady and Belichek are tough competitors and they push everything to its limit to win, and they seem to think the rule book is just another obstacle. I would like to see these guys running our military. That's where they belong.
Fact checker wrote:
False. McNally referred to his desire to "deflate" in order to fit into a jacket.
When I refer to Mark Mcgwire as 'roided up I am speaking about an issue he had w/ hemorrhoids. Seriously.
NFoolishnessL wrote:
Aaron Rodgers >>>
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/aaron-rodgers-likes-his-footballs-overinflated/Matt Leinart >>>>
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/leinart-says-every-quarterback-tampers-with-the-ball-except-one/Eli Manning >>>
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/24/sports/football/eli-mannings-footballs-are-months-in-making.html?_r=0Brad Johnson >>>
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/bucs/bucs-qb-johnson-paid-to-have-footballs-altered-before-sb-37/2214490
What is this?! Four articles with quotes from four different professional quarterbacks who admit they, and every other quarterback, tamper with the footballs before each game!? You should be thrown out for such hypocrisy!
Seriously though, this "cheating" the Patriots are guilty of is the equivalent of going 60 in a 55. Totally blown out of proportion by the news media and anti-Patriots sports radio hacks. Move on....
dun with this wrote:
NFoolishnessL wrote:Aaron Rodgers >>>
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/aaron-rodgers-likes-his-footballs-overinflated/Matt Leinart >>>>
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/leinart-says-every-quarterback-tampers-with-the-ball-except-one/Eli Manning >>>
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/24/sports/football/eli-mannings-footballs-are-months-in-making.html?_r=0Brad Johnson >>>
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/bucs/bucs-qb-johnson-paid-to-have-footballs-altered-before-sb-37/2214490What is this?! Four articles with quotes from four different professional quarterbacks who admit they, and every other quarterback, tamper with the footballs before each game!? You should be thrown out for such hypocrisy!
Seriously though, this "cheating" the Patriots are guilty of is the equivalent of going 60 in a 55. Totally blown out of proportion by the news media and anti-Patriots sports radio hacks. Move on....
Except that the Patriots were caught lying to league investigators.
What lies would those be? I won't hold my breath awaiting your reply.
So to do the investigation, the NFL hires a law firm that they have paid millions to over the years. Now to hear the appeal, Roger Goodell has ignored calls for an independent arbiter and named as hearing officer......Roger Goodell. Are you kidding me? Does any rational thinker still think this is nit a bag job by a kangaroo court?
Top Noticer wrote:
Two things that are not debatable: Tom Brady is the GOAT, and he is innocent in "deflategate."
Brady is one of the all-time greats. If Seattle's "QB" - who's more of a game manager, had been involved in something like this, the media would have glossed over it.
Here's a couple of sure predictions; Tom will have several more great seasons. His counterpart on the Seahawks will be proven to be mediocre, as relying on the refs to help out won't be quite as easy from here on out, never mind the bit of incredible luck (which happens for teams here and there) has run out. Luck can be the residue of design, but in Seattle's case, it was just luck. Their SB win was legit over a crappy and cowardly Broncos team, but they were in that game due to bad play calling by SF. In this past SB, their overrated QB threw into double-coverage at the end of the game, lol. Something the media, with the exception of Deion Sanders and a couple of others, ignore. LOLOLOL
The media ignored that okay at the end of the game?! Have you been living under a rock?
Polly P wrote:
So to do the investigation, the NFL hires a law firm that they have paid millions to over the years. Now to hear the appeal, Roger Goodell has ignored calls for an independent arbiter and named as hearing officer......Roger Goodell. Are you kidding me? Does any rational thinker still think this is nit a bag job by a kangaroo court?
So, how do you feel about internal investigations of all instances of police brutality and use of excessive force?
DiscoGary wrote:
In 2006 Tom Brady and Peyton Manning helped create the rule which made it possible for each team to use their own balls when on offense:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2015/01/26/tom-brady-deflategate-peyton-manning-rule-change-nfl/22372835/So far we have:
1. Tom Brady helped create the rule making it possible for his team to work on the footballs he used on offense.
2. He is on record saying he liked under-inflated footballs.
3. The footballs for the game in question were handled by a guy who at one point was called "the deflator".
4. The balls in that game were found to be under-inflated according to NFL guidelines.
Tom Brady went to extraordinary lengths to make it possible for him to use under-inflated footballs. He even went so far as to get the rules changed.
This was no accident.
This was not a problem with pressure gauges.
This is not a weight loss issue.
Brady conspired to break the rules and he got caught.
Moving forward the Patriots should be allowed to drop the pressure to the lowest legal limit while being watched very carefully.
This is equivalent to corking the bat or waxing the ball in baseball. It should be punished, but it's better described as "gamesmanship" rather than a federal crime. But if the Patriots want to hint that everyone breaks the rules, right now would be a good time to prove it.
Brady and Belichek are tough competitors and they push everything to its limit to win, and they seem to think the rule book is just another obstacle. I would like to see these guys running our military. That's where they belong.
DiscoGary, it is clear to me from this post that you have not read the rebuttal and are not stepping back and trying to tack an objective view.
Specifically, in point 3 you say McNally was at one point a guy who was called the deflator. Wrong. That is not what the Wells report shows, never mind the rebuttal. In one single text from May of 2014 McNally referred to himself as the 'deflator'. There is not a witness or a shred of evidence that anyone called him or referred to him as the deflator. Again, before I read the rebuttal, I figured this was some clever lawyering, but not after I read the whole rebuttal and better saw the context of the texts.
On point 4, as another poster so thoroughly pointed out, the NFL's credibility in how they determined the pressure of the balls before and during the Colts game is not some minor triviality. It is central to the whole accusation. And it is amazing to me, as well, that if ball pressure is such a prominent 'integrity of the game' issue that the NFL did not have a scientifically sound protocol in place to determine it.
Again, take off the hate glasses for a few minutes and read the rebuttal next to the report.
Goodell has decided to hear the appeal himself, which at first blush looks like he's going to ram it up Brady's azz, but I predict a different outcome. I think after Goodell and his team read and duly consider the rebuttal, they are going to see the holes in the Wells report, and the last thing Goodell wants is that report getting in front of a judge. Goodell is going to look for a compromise Brady, the Pats and the other owners can live with.
If the Wells report ends up in a judge's hands, the outcome could be the end of Goodell as the commissioner.
genuine random a hole wrote:
Fact checker wrote:False. McNally referred to his desire to "deflate" in order to fit into a jacket.
When I refer to Mark Mcgwire as 'roided up I am speaking about an issue he had w/ hemorrhoids. Seriously.
The evidence clearly shows that months ago McNally mentioned he needed to "deflate" so he could wear that jacket. If you want to think that means letting air out of himself, you go ahead and believe that. If you prefer to sound reasonably intelligent, read the rebuttal before posting again on this topic.
This whole thing is silly. The rule is silly, the NFL's response to it is silly, the public's response is silly, the text messages are silly...the whole thing is silly. The NFL's report on this was BIGGER than the report on Rice! Really!? The NFL has put more time investigating deflated footballs than it has into the Rice incident!
Why!?
If anything, the NFL needs to put more time into whether or not it should be a rule. At some point, a lower psi is going to be a hindrance. How did they even come up with those psi numbers in the first place? Because someone 50 years ago thought that's how it should be?
I'd equate this rule to making a rule in MLB where every fielder has to use the same exact glove.
Why would anyone read a report when it is obviously a clever attempt to save face hoping that maybe a few of their explanations will be plausible. Anyone who is not a Patriot nuthugger already knows they have a pattern of cheating and this is just another example. Denying something doesn't make it untrue.
Maybe they read it for the same reason that those who are jealous of Brady and the Patriots read the Wells report which really contained very few, if any, plausible explanations.
Get used to it.. wrote:
Why would anyone read a report when it is obviously a clever attempt to save face hoping that maybe a few of their explanations will be plausible. Anyone who is not a Patriot nuthugger already knows they have a pattern of cheating and this is just another example. Denying something doesn't make it untrue.
It's obvious you didn't even read the Wells report. If you did, you would see that, whether a Pats fan or not, there was information missing (or not considered at all) and a tremendous amount of assumptions made. That is why anyone looking to try and objectively understand what happened would read, not only the Wells report, but the Patriots rebuttal.
You are like a movie reviewer who tells us how terrible a movie is when really they've never seen it. Your opinion in that situation, like this one, is worth nothing and you lose all credibility. Your best course of action here is to either educate yourself and present facts as to why you hold an opinion, or, STFU.
I don't need to read it. The Pats have easily been the most successful team of the century in a league that seeks parity. The only way they can be so superior is because they cheat. It's as obvious as the pubes on your lips from sucking Brady's dick.