What do you think of someone who doesn't want a college education?

Formerly blue collar wrote:

The only people that say not everyone needs to go to college are people that went to college. Try working in a factory or some other physical labor job. It sucks compared to working in a nice, cushy, air conditioned office.

I work in a nice cushy air conditioned office and didn't go to college. I picked up IT skills in the military and transitioned to the civilian job market. Granted, I do have SOME college but don't even hold an associates degree.

Some people prefer physical labor and would hate an office job. Some days I absolutely hate sitting in a cubicle but my lunch time run helps me cope.

As was stated earlier, HAVE A PLAN.

So why don't conservatives have any effective counter arguments? They too have had decades to appeal to the public. It seems like it is their fault as much as the other side.

I don't expect Flagpole agrees with everything I've written, but I certainly agree with him. Right on, brother. Problem is almost everyone believes they are in that smart category that needs college just like they believe their little league3 team earned all those trophies.

Now, if I were in charge of student loans or whatever, I would give them only for 1) community college/trade school/under $xxxxx (less than current max), or 2) after a gap year or two. If you want to go to an expensive school, fine, but either have the money for it or spend a year or two working and see if it's still worth it to you.

I get what you are saying but that would kind of limit people who don't have rich parents, but can compete with others at expensive schools and want the best education possible.

Kinda rich getting richer.

I generally think positively of them. It's better for someone to know they don't have what it takes for college rather than sheepishly enroll and take on dozens of thousands of debt to get a sociology degree. Besides these days college is really about connections and internships. If you can make those without college then godspeed.

Anyone who doesn't want a STEM degree: stupid and lazy.

Anyone who doesn't want a non-stem degree: smart and industrious.

Flagpole wrote:

2) A college education, while not as valuable as it once was

.

I don't think that's true - I think the gap is getting bigger. The degree is increasingly valuable, not less.

Although yeah, like the f'in troll said, it could be just that smart kids from good families are doing better now, and those are the kids who go to college.

including:

"Study: Income Gap Between Young College and High School Grads Widens

A college degree is increasingly valuable, in part because a high school diploma is less and less so."

Flagpole wrote:

SMART kids need to go to college. If you are at the top of your class, and you don't have a plan to make a lot of money right away, you should head to college. If you are struggling with a 3.0 GPA in today's grade-inflated high schools, you should really think about some other options.

Those who don't want to go to college or who dismiss college like to bring up Bill Gates and several others who made it despite not graduating from college. Fine. If you have Bill Gates-type smarts and skills, then go make your mark without a college education. Those people are outliers.

Agree completely. I'd also say that you better (a) go to a great college or (b) go to a good college and have a great major (Egr, Math, CompSci). In other words, you can be a History major at Princeton, but if you go to NC State, you better be a CompSci or equiv. Otherwise, you're wasting your $.

But to answer the original question, I do NOT look down at someone who does NOT go to college. But, they should have some plan like learning carpentry, X-ray tech, military, whatever.

I DO look down at people who don't go to college and expect the world to give them something. You gotta work your butt off and earn it, whatever you do.

the way it is wrote:

Anyone who doesn't want a STEM degree: stupid and lazy.

Anyone who doesn't want a non-stem degree: smart and industrious.

I have two STEM degrees. I wholly disagree with your characterizations.

That said many people should manage their expectations of earning potential bases on their educational paths.

But stupid and lazy? Laughable.

Chewbacca wrote:

LOL u cray wrote:

^ Found an Obama voter

^ Found someone who thinks the Earth is 4,000 years old and his great grand pappy rode a dinosaur

Do liberals really believe that, if someone doesn't agree with Obama that they're a stupid christian conservative?

fjfndnfnfncxncn wrote:

I get what you are saying but that would kind of limit people who don't have rich parents, but can compete with others at expensive schools and want the best education possible.

Kinda rich getting richer.

There is no such thing as the best education possible. Undergrad is undergrad. Also, education is not a competition so what does being able to compete with others even have to do with this?

noodlez wrote:

fjfndnfnfncxncn wrote:

I get what you are saying but that would kind of limit people who don't have rich parents, but can compete with others at expensive schools and want the best education possible.

Kinda rich getting richer.

There is no such thing as the best education possible. Undergrad is undergrad. Also, education is not a competition so what does being able to compete with others even have to do with this?

BS.

I taught at a top 3 engineering university and also at less prestigious schools. The resources, competition, and available job opportunities can be vastly disparate.

Also, of course school is a competition. I got into grad school based on my GPA and test scores over other people who did not do as well. I also got many more job offers over people who attended less prestigious programs.

Think about what you are saying.

agip wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

2) A college education, while not as valuable as it once was

.

I don't think that's true - I think the gap is getting bigger. The degree is increasingly valuable, not less.

Although yeah, like the f'in troll said, it could be just that smart kids from good families are doing better now, and those are the kids who go to college.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/02/11/study-income-gap-between-young-college-and-high-school-grads-widens

including:

"Study: Income Gap Between Young College and High School Grads Widens

A college degree is increasingly valuable, in part because a high school diploma is less and less so."

Well, I could have said that better...still valuable, but the equivalent today of a 4-year degree from the 70s and earlier is really a graduate degree. A college degree, unless in a specified field or one that is in demand, doesn't hold as much water as it once did.

Chaunuchi wrote:

?

66.2 percent

The percentage of students enrolling in college in the fall immediately following high school completion was 66.2 percent in 2012 (source). Females enrolled at a higher rate (71.3 percent) than males (61.3 percent) (source).

Back to school statistics - Fast Facts - U.S. Department of ...

nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id...

National Center for Education Statistics

--quote--

Back in the early 1960s when I was graduated from HS about 15% went on to college but by the mid '60s the Babyboomer population bulge and concerns about the draft started an upward trend that has not slackened.

Now Obama has proposed we treat Junior and Community College like another two years of HS although he stopped short of suggesting attendance be mandatory like it is in the HS system.

From one in seven to seven out of ten in my lifetime a vastly different employment landscape indeed.

My generation got it's 'earning a livable minimum wage' construct by entering trade and craft unions and promotions because of mastering the skill set produced by 'on the job training'. Now it seems we need governmental mandates to achieve the same thing except there are no jobs for todays debt ridden graduates.

Government quotes a low unemployment rate but uses smoke and mirrors to obtain that rate. If you are unsuccessful in finding a job, with some level of reasoning that is well beyond my grasp, they no longer count you as being unemployed. Of course I'm not a college grad so how would you expect me to grasp such a simple concept -if you don't have a job you are not unemployed you are just not in the labor pool .

as those posters before me have said I hope he has a plan because the plan his government is serving up is made of whole cloth.

I wonder how long it will be until government will expect that ol' rascal Puff to bring todays grads strings and sealing wax and all the other fancy stuff they need to survive.

A Garmin GPS watch in every stocking I say !!! The pork barrels full of gubmint cheese ain't enough.

?

Most college graduates are worthless anyway.

Really? a major in minority cultures? or economics of paddleboarding?

Just read down the list of degree programs in most colleges (especially in CA).

I'll bite and probably get bashed or accused of humble bragging.

I was born and raised in central Ohio. I live and work in Columbus now. (I have lived a total of two years in Oklahoma, Alabama, and Florida). I make 105k a year with a pension, health care, 401k and 6 weeks vacation. My pay grade tops out at 126k currently. I just have to keep this job long enough. I also do not have a college degree.

How? IT. Programming specifically. It seems to be one of the few areas where you can learn everything you need to know without school, and where actual skills can open doors. I started programming in 1988 on a Commodore 64 (thanks Dad!). I loved writing code and knew that's what I was built to do.

When I got out of high school, I goofed off for a year before joining the Army reserves. After my training (it was long because of the type of job I was in), I went to DeVry for a year. I quit DeVry because it was a waste of time and money. I learned NOTHING I didn't already know and was constantly sitting around bored in class due to the lowest common denominator factor.

I got a job with a big company in Columbus. Data entry. But I proved myself and worked my way up and into IT. 15 years later I'm still here making by all accounts "good money." I did go to back to Ohio State from 2009 to 2011 to take math classes. Just because. I took 8 math classes and not a single other thing (hey work paid for it).

So I am indeed one that thinks college is overrated FOR SOME PROFESSIONS AND PEOPLE. Some folks need it. When I interview people for programming jobs, almost invariably it's the people that were self taught initially that end up making the best employees. It's the desire to program because they love it, as opposed to going to school to find some job that "pays well" that has made for the best employees.

Yep, nothing wrong with working part time while attending a jc then finishing up at the local state university. It's not glamorous, but at the end you'll have a college degree on your resume for the rest of your life. To paint the decision as an expensive 4 year vacation versus getting a job is a false dicotomy.