Has anyone ever attempted Quenton Cassady's famed 3x (20x400m) workout and come out alive?

As a HS senior (1961), I ran 20x440 several times. The summer after HS, I averaged 70.1 in a 2 man 10 mile relay where my clubmate, former Irish HS mile champ John Gygax averaged 67.

20x440 was an Igloi staple. I ran it so many times that after I left the LATC, I never ran it again.

Later, I often ran 30x330 with 110 jogs.

grimatongueworm wrote:

That makes my hips hurt just thinking about running all that curve.

A real attempt to complete such the OAR fantasy workout would make critical adjustments. The main one being running half of the repeats in the opposite direction on the track.

Flo'da boy wrote:

Well, in the book the session was a test of Cassidy's willpower moreso than physical preparation, thus the exchange

"Bruce, nobody does stuff like this anymore. Arthur Lydiard said--"

"Screw Arthur Lydiard. This is how you'll know. This is how I knew"

(I don't have the book with me but it went something like that)

So maybe the FTC did this at some point as a gut check, but I can imagine it was their bread and butter. More of Zatopek's thing

It was, Denton, " I learned one important thing. " Cassidy, "That You're a lunatic?" Denton, "Well perhaps we all are to some degree..."

Yes, OAR was a great read I'll still say. Haven't yet read, Again To Carthage.

In high school, in my junior and senior year near the end of the cross county season and track season about a month before the state championships, I ran 35 x 400m with a strict 60 seconds rest.

I hadn't read Once a Runner at that time but I can relate to the physical description of the workout and the accompanying mental deterioration.

After about 20 repetitions I started to feel a bit numb, and the last 10 were completed in a state of semi-delirium, though I didn't slow down. The average for the set was just over 71 seconds with the last three around 65, 63, 58 seconds. I had some teammates who completed the first 12-15 but I did the rest on my own with the coach timing.

I ran around 60 miles per week during off-season base training and then dropped all the way to 20-30 miles/week right before the championships.

I won high school state titles in both cross country and track, beating a rival both times who I was never able to match during the regular season, and I always thought that I had developed some extra reserves of toughness from that over-the-top workout that gave me a mental edge.

I ended up running 9:20 for 2m in HS and 29:47 for 10k in university, but I never did any single workout in university that was quite as extreme.

I have not done the fictional workout as described in Once a Runner, but I have done other similarly awe-inspiring fictional workouts, and in those, I got great fictional results that paid off in great fictional success in fictional competitions. I also gleaned great fictional insights about myself that carried over into the fictional integrity of the rest of my fictional life. In that fictional world I was talented, fit, and successful, while also being sympathetically tragic in some small way. But achieving and maintaining that fictional standard of excellence did take fictional discipline and commitment, as one might expect. Not recommended for the faint of imagination.

Knowing LRC, I'm honestly surprised that nobody has attempted this workout so far just to try it. I mean, if 100 beers, 100 miles is a thing, surely 60 x 400s can also be a thing.

There's no reason to get snarky, Fantasy Islander. The track performances I mentioned are easily verifiable online, though they are hardly fast enough to inspire disbelief.I'm also surprised that no one has come forward saying that they did the full 60.A 27 minute 10k works out to 65 sec average per lap, and I think someone at that level of fitness could do 60 x 400m at 65 sec. and maybe even a bit faster. 60 x 400m = 15 miles, so It's 2.5 the race distance, but with a rest after each lap. Shorter ran 27:45, which is 67 sec. per lap.

fantasy islander wrote:

I have not done the fictional workout as described in Once a Runner, but I have done other similarly awe-inspiring fictional workouts, and in those, I got great fictional results that paid off in great fictional success in fictional competitions. I also gleaned great fictional insights about myself that carried over into the fictional integrity of the rest of my fictional life. In that fictional world I was talented, fit, and successful, while also being sympathetically tragic in some small way. But achieving and maintaining that fictional standard of excellence did take fictional discipline and commitment, as one might expect. Not recommended for the faint of imagination.

Another 20..

anacondarunner wrote:

And did runners in this era (i.e., the Florida Track Club members) actually run sessions like 60x400m?!

In college I used the books workout format to do 20 x 400 many times. I liked it a lot

One time I decided to do 2 sets of 20 in a romantic attempt to challenge myself. I did the first set at 70 sec pace and the went after the next set with passion. Each 400 got harder and harder until tell my legs got numb. The splits actually got a little faster because I was going nearly all out just to continue. I finally stopped at 30 (total)

I'll always remember that workout as one of my best and also one of my dumbest! I was "cooked" the whole next week and went downhill the rest of the season.

it was not as much the sheer volume that was the problem, but the quality (for my ability) and it being on the track.

xenonscreams wrote:

Knowing LRC, I'm honestly surprised that nobody has attempted this workout so far just to try it. I mean, if 100 beers, 100 miles is a thing, surely 60 x 400s can also be a thing.

I just don't think it's physically possible to do that many unless you have a longer break between them or go slower than mile pace.

And between beer and 60 x 400m, it's no contest.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

xenonscreams wrote:

Knowing LRC, I'm honestly surprised that nobody has attempted this workout so far just to try it. I mean, if 100 beers, 100 miles is a thing, surely 60 x 400s can also be a thing.

I just don't think it's physically possible to do that many unless you have a longer break between them or go slower than mile pace.

And between beer and 60 x 400m, it's no contest.

Sure, but nobody has even bothered trying and seeing how long it takes them to break? Seems very odd for this website

runningart2004 wrote:

I did 20x400 once...It was august. Took a very long time.

Alan

Galloway's Book on Running, first edition, has a plan building to a 20x400 workout for the 10k. This was before the walk run thing became the focus of his books. I tried it once. Old school VO2Max workouts work.

60x400, however == pointless

I've done 12 x 400.

Ivadunnman wrote:

I've done 12 x 400.

Hasn't everyone?

xenonscreams wrote:

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

I just don't think it's physically possible to do that many unless you have a longer break between them or go slower than mile pace.

And between beer and 60 x 400m, it's no contest.

Sure, but nobody has even bothered trying and seeing how long it takes them to break? Seems very odd for this website

The workout wasn't at Quenton's mile pace.

It was 3x4x5x400 at 62-63 seconds. 100m jog between reps. 400m jog between sets. Stand around and listen to Bruce Denton giving you a speech after the first super set.

It would have been between 3k and 5k pace for him.

I did 50x440 while in college, but never finished the full 60x440 workout described in John's novel.

Just me out on the track one evening in late August. My plan was to run 4x (5x440(110)) (440), just like in the book. But after finishing the first set I decided to go for another. I finished that set after falling into the 68-70 range per lap and the 110 jog had slowed from 27-30 to 33-35 seconds.

I had been talking with a lot of the guys that I had been training with and we would always talk about these transcendental experiences and barriers that one really had to break through to be "there." And I knew that I had never been there, and that it would take something drastic to get "there."

So I went for another set, believing that this was the existentialist breakthrough that would define my running career thereafter. It was not about gaining fitness, it was August. It was about conquering the mind, and allowing myself to truly believe that I could push my body to limits that no other human believed was possible. At the time I didn't think there were many guys left doing these kinds of workouts, but we had all heard about the Africans running 250 miles a week.

The last set I completely deteriorated. My legs were completely numb and I swear I could feel my body eating itself from the inside out. So after becoming exhausted, I ran number 50 in 1:28 and called it a day. I laid on the grass field inside of the track for at least an hour.

I was unable to run for 3-4 days after this.

I did 50x440 while in college, but never finished the full 60x440 workout described in John's novel.

Just me out on the track one evening in late August. My plan was to run 4x (5x440(110)) (440), just like in the book. But after finishing the first set I decided to go for another. I finished that set after falling into the 68-70 range per lap and the 110 jog had slowed from 27-30 to 33-35 seconds.

I had been talking with a lot of the guys that I had been training with and we would always talk about these transcendental experiences and barriers that one really had to break through to be "there." And I knew that I had never been there, and that it would take something drastic to get "there."

So I went for another set, believing that this was the existentialist breakthrough that would define my running career thereafter. It was not about gaining fitness, it was August. It was about conquering the mind, and allowing myself to truly believe that I could push my body to limits that no other human believed was possible. At the time I didn't think there were many guys left doing these kinds of workouts, but we had all heard about the Africans running 250 miles a week.

The last set I completely deteriorated. My legs were completely numb and I swear I could feel my body eating itself from the inside out. So after becoming exhausted, I ran number 50 in 1:28 and called it a day. I laid on the grass field inside of the track for at least an hour.

I was unable to run for 3-4 days after this.

Wow, thanks for the insight.

Great post.