Recruiting Visits..... what is normal?

Dial it up wrote:

Mundus is correct. OP you seem to have an extremely uptight, ignorant view of reality.

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wow. I will not participate in slinging of insults with someone who obviously hasn't the equal life experience to mine. I don't mean I have lived a better life then you, or that I'm smarter, I don't know you. Nor you me.... just that there is no replacing years of existence over arrogance. If you are to assume I'm some prudent, inexperienced dud... you could never have any idea how dead wrong you are. That being said, in someways I am a survivor, over the years, there have been people I have known and loved, who are not.

I never could see around the corners of my youth, either. This is a scientific and biological condition of development.

This:

"If you couldn't drink 15 beers until 3 am then wake up at 8am sunday for a 15 mile run you probably couldn't hang with our team."

15 beers.

I really am going to just resist this useless urge to try to explain to you how not healthy, or not "cool" this actually is.

Some day, you might be a parent. Your positions and conditions will change. It really matters not if you believe me.

Co-worker's kid is a Div I baseball recruit and got hammered on a recruiting trip. He overslept with the rest of the team and missed a practice. When the coach drilled the rest of the team on why they were late, the kid made up a cover story about the team showing him the campus and losing track of time. The coach bought it and the kid was in like Flynn with the rest of the team.

As a parent, I really hope coaches exercise some control over their teams on the partying. If a kid is going to have to deal with the rigors of training while trying to maintain top academics, they should not have to deal with having to prove themselves to be able to also party hard. I would just have my kid skip running altogether and join a frat/sorority and sleep in on the weekends.

Precious Roy,

Despite what others may assume about me or my original post, the recruit I speak of shared all this with me because, honestly, they were pretty surprised by the group mentality and that coach didn't seem to care.

This recruit actually was a spectator in the events, as they haven't ever been one for alcohol, and ultimately (rather quickly) decided against this school because partying/drinking so prevalent.

"As a parent, I really hope coaches exercise some control over their teams on the partying. If a kid is going to have to deal with the rigors of training while trying to maintain top academics, they should not have to deal with having to prove themselves to be able to also party hard."

this, 100%

It seems my original post is sparking some to want to justify or normalize the aspect of partying and drinking while off at college. Like it's something new to argue, "everyone who is someone, does it." But this wasn't the point of my original post at all. Personally, hearing what had happened, I found it incredibly irresponsible and unnerving that a coach of a respected school would be condoning underaged girls (possibly first time to visit a college) to be furnished fake IDs (by the schools team) so they could drink at an off-campus bar. My original post wasn't a question of, "hey, do kids in college drink and party!!??" It was more, "this isn't normal for a recruit trip, is it?"

Overall, I am gathering that most parents would find this unacceptable, probably most coaches, and most kids (who drink and party as a part of their college experience) find it totally normal and par for the course.

Thanks for sharing your story.

Precious Roy wrote:

I would just have my kid skip running altogether and join a frat/sorority and sleep in on the weekends.

This seems to be what you and the OP don't get: for most sports at most schools, your team is a fraternity/sorority (especially on the guy's side). The team is very much a brotherhood with a shared purpose that creates all sorts bonding that goes along with shared work, failure and success.

The good news about being on a team versus a frat is that the training does temper your partying and it does make one question their lifestyle decisions because their are immediate consequences for such actions. You also have a coaching staff, advisors, and grad assistants who are actively looking out for the overall well-being of your child.

Its really hit and miss if that happens at a school. I personally took 4 Officials to big conference D1s for track. Out of those, 1 took me to a hard core party w/ very illegal drugs, 1 for a social with light drinking, and 2 had nothing of the sort.

Other people that I know had hard core parties at all of their officials.

It really just depends. I don't really know anyone that wasn't taken to a party on their official though. It seems to be pretty standard across all sports too. Its all about team culture, and particularly if they care about what image they're reflecting to the recruit, I noticed that was reflective of the coach too. The more involved coaches and the ones that you could tell held their guys to a higher standard, didn't have that problem.

Which is a good point to bring up to the coach on an official. A crucial question in recruitment is to find out what is the coaches standards for his athletes. Just because its a good D1 program doesn't mean that they're super strict.

Judith wrote:

Personally, hearing what had happened, I found it incredibly irresponsible and unnerving that a coach of a respected school would be condoning underaged girls (possibly first time to visit a college) to be furnished fake IDs (by the schools team) so they could drink at an off-campus bar. My original post wasn't a question of, "hey, do kids in college drink and party!!??" It was more, "this isn't normal for a recruit trip, is it?"

Overall, I am gathering that most parents would find this unacceptable, probably most coaches, and most kids (who drink and party as a part of their college experience) find it totally normal and par for the course.

I think I am done with this discussion because, despite what you say, you are only here to justify your moral unrest not to understand.

First, the coach did not "condone" this behavior at least not on the facts you presented. Moreover, I do not know a single NCAA track or field Coach (and I know a lot) that would condone his athletes providing fake-ids to a recruit. That's a ridiculous assertion.

Secondly, the recruits weren't furnished fake ids "by the schools team" (your words). This wasn't some official action by the Recruiting director. Some of the underage team members went to a club and dragged the recruits along. They all got in using fake ids. These were 18-20 year old girls doing what college girls do--sneak into clubs.

Finally, yes, most parents wouldn't find this acceptable. That's their job. Most coaches would find it unacceptable if it came to their attention. Most, however, feel like their job is to make sure the kid is running well and going to class. A runner's social life isn't their business until it affects the other things.

If you keep trying, you will eventually find enough people that share your outrage that you will leave here thinking you are "right."

Good luck. I mean that, nothing personal.

Mundus,

Please let me clarify two things, 1. my use of the word, "furnished", was never meant to imply that the school or coach provided them. Furnished was referring to, these girls did not come with fake IDs and only had them because current teammates provided them, for them.

2. when I say that the coach, "condones", this is merely an assumption that he knows based on what he current athletes told those new recruits, and the fact that in the morning he saw them with his own two eyes, and their condition.

I appreciate your insight into the matter, and respect that being a parent certainly changes the perspective and angle on the matter. Again, I was trying to gather information to make it clearer to me whether this was an extreme example of this type of activity at a recruit visit, or if this kind of thing happens more often than not. Furthermore, I feel that (right or wrong) there is a difference in what an athlete/student might participate in as part of their college experience, as opposed to their recruiting one.

Obviously, it is no secret that I find it unacceptable.

Best of luck in your endeavors, as well.

thank you.

Well, Judith, I am with you on this. Can't say these responses have made my day. Maybe I'm naive to assume that drinking 15 beers and running a 15 mile run the next morning would be impossible, but maybe it could be done! I would hate it if my athlete went on a visit and the team hid the fact they were all huge partiers, if they were. Can't see my kid fitting in-kid goes to bed at 9 pm every night by choice, because kid wants to be THE BEST. Kid is still a lot of fun, very popular at school, and has tons of friends (who probably do party a lot more than kid does, but they aren't top athletes.) Maybe it's good that the athletes show their true colors while hosting the recruits. But I find it hard to believe that they could keep up that lifestyle and still train and race at a high level and still be good students- all things important to my kid.

Soooooo, anybody on a very strong D1 team with strong academics with a team culture that doesn't include drinking and partying care to share what team they are on? I'm curious...about both men's and women's teams.

Parent of top recruit wrote:

I would hate it if my athlete went on a visit and the team hid the fact they were all huge partiers, if they were. .

Parent of Top Recuit,

great point that I hadn't considered!! Certainly better to get the big picture out the gate, then be kept in the dark about the social aspects of the team!!

As you might have read, this recruit did NOT sign to this college. While relieved that the decision fell the way it did, I still found myself concerned for what athletes are potentially immersed in on a recruiting visit.

But, as you have written, had it not happened that way, then the recruit would not have had the full picture with which to make an educated decision.

Good Luck to your runner!!

Judith,

You came here asking a pretty simple question: are recruits normally exposed to partying on recruiting visits?

The clear answer is: yes, except when the coach/host sense that the athlete is opposed or uninterested in that sort of behavior.

Multiple people have indicated why this is actually a good thing: both you and "parent of a top recruit" are beneficiaries of this behavior.

Recruiting is a two-way street. The recruit is trying to find a place they feel comfortable; the coach/team are trying to find athletes that will fit in their culture.

Everything else has just been you (for the most part) upset that we don't believe you that the sky is falling at the same rate that you do.

That's it for me.

I wonder if things are different for boys than girls. My daughter went on a couple of recruiting trips this year, and big time partying was not a part of it at all. And before someone says, "Not that she told you about," yeah, not that she told me about. She's very open with my wife and me though, so she'd tell us if there was a lot of drinking.

I graduated last year with over a 3.5 from a big ten school that was top ten in the country for my engineering major. I was an ncaa qualifier for track and there were other ncaa qualifiers on the men's and women's teams.

We never ever took a distance recruit to a party that had alcohol. The reason I picked the school I did was because on my visit, the team hung out with me playing games and talking. I felt like I got a much better feel for the atmosphere and camaraderie between the women on the team that way than if everyone had been drunk and partying.

Yes people on our team drank but there were plenty that didn't because they wanted to run well. Drinking was never a huge part of the social scene for the distance team in the fact that you not drinking didn't stop people from wanting to hang out with you.

Posters on this thread have said to not be naive, expect everyone to party blah blah blah. But I think that is wrong. You certainly don't have to settle for that. Drinking has never been a huge part of my life (yes I did drink some in college) but even after graduating and no longer running, I don't feel the need to go out and get wasted on the weekends. I had a very successful college career, athletically and academically and I had alot of fun with friends that I expect to stay in contact with for years to come. All without having a crazy party life.

If not drinking is a priority for your daughter/athlete, I would say keep looking for different schools were she would have a better visit.

I will say that our track team did take recruits to parties that had drinking but I'm making an assumption that the daughter/recruit is a distance runner. I think cross country tends to attract women with a slightly different mindset than sprinters. Keep looking for another school, it is out there.

A guy on the team was wasted and exposed himself to a female recruit. She committed shortly after her visit.

We also had a guy once whom the coach knew was very straight laced. Our coach knew the team had the occasional party but treated us like adults and expected us to be responsible. Which most usually were for 18-22 year olds. But on this kids visit he specify said "absolutely no parties, he can figure that out next year when is 18 and in school!". We stayed in watched movies and the kid committed. Ended up coming out of his shell in college and was successful in his endeavors.

Sometimes I wonder how kids will do in college and afterwards with there helicopter parents.

I think that taking recruits to parties is fairly typical. Especially if they act interested. I think it will certainly vary school to school and it will vary depending on who their host is. I never took a recruit near any alcohol/party when I was hosting them, but I tended to be a rule follower. I'm sure other hosts did.

Being around drunk people is a requirement for pretty much any college experience. If it makes the recruit feel uncomfortable then it's wrong. But it becomes a regular occurrence at some point. They will get used to it.

Furnishing a fake ID is way over the line in my opinion.

I would doubt the prevalence of people drinking on campus during the day (if that's what you're implying by more in their bottles than water). While my team had plenty of weekend parties, it would have been way outside the norm for someone to bring alcohol to school/practice.

Now if you want to avoid this situation then just make it clear to the coach that your child does not want to be around alcohol. It's probably better if your child tells the coach that then you. They will know who to have host your child to avoid situations like that.

Judith, look on the bright side. At least she didn't get banged out by the entire offensive line. That will most likely get saved for freshman year.

What I think you fail to realize is that as competitive collegiate runners, we are not out getting hammered or drinking 15 beers every weekend. That would be unsustainable and I agree unhealthy. I think the environment on most college track teams is that they train v. hard during the season and abstain from alcohol for the most part in season. However, during the "off season" after track or XC, most teams blow some steam by throwing some big parties and drinking to excess.

Mentality is often: "We've worked our asses off for 5 months and got X place at nationals last week, it's time to relax and celebrate"

What I'm trying to say is that I don't think many serious runners party regularly or as much as previous posters have implied, but there is a time and place for relieving stress and most college athletes aren't going to let hosting a prospie get in the way of their rare opportunity to let loose, so they bring them along on their night out, consequently giving the high schooler / you as the parent the impression that things are much worse than they actually are.

Absolutely a normal occurrence. That is all.

Judith,

What you see/heard is what you get. If this environment exists, it is because it has been allowed to exist. If the coach cares, there can be "some" control. If you recruit party kids and allow a party atmosphere, then that is what recruits will see.

So as a parent, it is your job to evaluate that. It is also your responsibility, when choosing NOT to attend a school you visited, that you give clear feedback to the coach. Tell them, "your team took my underaged kid to a party and provided alcohol." This is not a culture we are comfortable with.

Then ask specific questions, based on your experiences to coaches of future visits. You may get a snow job. The kids may be forewarned before you visit not to party because you asked, but you have to do your job as a parent and gather info, guide and protect.

I've ran at two different universities now, and when I went on a visit to the first school I went to, me and the other recruits were taken to a party. No big deal. Most teams do this. At the school I'm currently at we don't take recruits to parties, but when the season ends we party pretty damn hard so it's not like we don't do it we just don't expose the recruits to that.

Now some of my teammates went on visits to some other schools who were known for partying and sure enough they were taken to a party when they were on a visit. Said universities are pretty successful so just because a team drinks doesn't mean they cant run well.

So in general I would say this is pretty normal and not a big deal. Underage drinking happens in college and if you don't want to do it then you don't have to. People can make their own decisions