he probably came back and did a fast track session the next day or day after. as opposed to the hobby joggers on here who say "I could do that workout!" who would be recked for a week (and couldn't crack 55 for a 400m if their life depended on it).
he probably came back and did a fast track session the next day or day after. as opposed to the hobby joggers on here who say "I could do that workout!" who would be recked for a week (and couldn't crack 55 for a 400m if their life depended on it).
Woodchopper wrote:
What have you been smoking. DT can not run a marathon at 4.52 pace dummy. He is about a 64-65 minutes half marathon runner at best. Why would he do a tempo workout faster than his current ability.
When it comes to understanding training you are a running novice. This is proven when you assume DT aerobic potential lies along an imaginary chart in a running book.
Let me spell it out.
DT threshold is probably around 4.50 ish a mile. He runs a progressive workout with 8 miles of worth at 4.55 pace. Seems like an excellent workout although you are clearly trolling as this is what champions do!
Let me spell it out. There's a bunch of d2 runners in alamosa that can do 4:55 pace for 8 miles WITHOUT stopping at elevation.
Want to see what REAL WORLD CLASS middle distance training in January looks like take a look at the Steve Scott training log thread.
What champions do wrote:
Want to see what REAL WORLD CLASS middle distance training in January looks like take a look at the Steve Scott training log thread.
If you're talking about the 1982 log, Scott ran five races that month in New Zealand and most of his hard stuff was short, like 10 x 300 in 0:45. No long intervals like this.
Citation wrote:
What champions do wrote:Want to see what REAL WORLD CLASS middle distance training in January looks like take a look at the Steve Scott training log thread.
If you're talking about the 1982 log, Scott ran five races that month in New Zealand and most of his hard stuff was short, like 10 x 300 in 0:45. No long intervals like this.
He didn't do 8 mile runs starting and stopping each mile. Read the workouts. 10 miles good and hard, not 8x1 mile comfortable and in control.
1982
1/4: Ran 10mi
1/5: 11mi run with Walker and Dave. Head spinning afterwards.
1/6: Ran to Cornwall Park. Did 3x400 on the street. (10mi)
1/7: AM 5mi easy. PM 10mi in hills
1/8: AM 7mi. Easy PM ran 10x300 on grass field w/300 jog. Ran 45s, last in 41. (10mi)
1/9: Flew to Adelaide. PM 5mi easy
1/10: AM 5mi easy. PM 8x200 in 30s + 4mi.
Week: 76mi
--------------------------
1/11: AM Jogged 2mi easy.110ºF. Beat Ken Martin in 8:36 2mi. (8mi)
1/12: Fly to Melbourne. PM 10mi good and hard.
1/13: 13mi
1/14: AM 4mi easy, PM Melbourne Mile. 1st 3:55.91 Jogged after. (6mi)
1/15: Flew to Sydney. 12mi good, hard pace.
1/16: AM 7.5mi around park PM 7.5mi
1/17: Am 7mi around park. PM 3mi jog.
Week: 80mi
----------------------------
1/18: AM 5mi easy. PM. Sydney Mile. Race slow through 1200. Kicked like crazy the last lap. 1st in 3:58.8. Walker 0.2s back. 10mi
1/19: Flew to Christchurch. 13mi good hard
1/20: 8miles Hard PM 7mi fartlek.
1/21: AM 7mi easy, tired from yesterday. PM 3x(400-200). Hamstring hurt during last 200, finished anyway.(56-25)(59-27)(58-27). 10mi
1/22: Hamstring hurts, got therapy. 5 miles easy.
1/23: AM 5-6mi easy. PM Christchurch 1500m. Raced as plan, went w/rabbit, Walker boxed. Won in 3:37.8.
1/24:AM 11mi in the park. Good run. PM 5mi easy.
Week: 80mi
------------------------------
1/25: John and I ran 7-8mi around airport. Left at 2pm.
1/26: AM 6mi easy. PM Hamilton 1000m. Race was okay, wore flats, hard track. 4th in 2:20.1. Jogged down after. (7mi)
1/27: AM 11mi w/John. Drove to Lake Tarawera. Caught 6lb1oz trout!
1/28: 10mi
1/29: AM 7mi with John. Hot and muggy. PM 3mi easy + strides.
1/30: AM 3mi easy. PM Auckland Mile. Race was good, slow early, 51 last lap. Won in 3:54.8, Walker made surge with 700 left. Went home.
1/31: AM 5miles. PM 13miles in the foothills
Citation wrote:
What champions do wrote:Want to see what REAL WORLD CLASS middle distance training in January looks like take a look at the Steve Scott training log thread.
If you're talking about the 1982 log, Scott ran five races that month in New Zealand and most of his hard stuff was short, like 10 x 300 in 0:45. No long intervals like this.
Except for that 10 x 1000m workout.
What champions do = the new jamin.
You are truly and idiot, Sir. How do you know what Scott's "good and hard" pace is?
logic song wrote:
What champions do = the new jamin.
You are truly and idiot, Sir. How do you know what Scott's "good and hard" pace is?
My bad, Scotts good hard pace must be closer to 6 min a mile than 4:55. What do you think good hard pace for a 3:47 miler is?? I'm sure Scott's good hard 10 milers were around 50 minutes or just under in January. DTs workout running totals around 40 minutes with an additional 12 minutes of rest. I bet Scott and Walker would stop their watches every 5 minutes and stand around talking about that big fish Scott caught.
For all you its only January, Scott also set the American mile record 3:47.69 in July of 1982.
What champions do wrote:
I'm sure Scott's good hard 10 milers were around 50 minutes or just under in January.
Here you go genius, straight out of Steve Scott's log:
4/29/1982: AM 5mi PM 10mi hard 52:00
5:12 pace.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=346165&page=01/10 trolling effort by the way
What champions do wrote:
Let me spell it out. There's a bunch of d2 runners in alamosa that can do 4:55 pace for 8 miles WITHOUT stopping at elevation.
Want to see what REAL WORLD CLASS middle distance training in January looks like take a look at the Steve Scott training log thread.
Want to see what REAL WORLD CLASS middle distance training in December looks like take a look at this thread.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2509797"For the 2x2 miles, I would start in December: for example 1992-1993:
12.12 Saturday 2x13m 's - 13:08, 13:04 (5:15 pace)
12.26 Sat 10:47, then 3 miles instead of 2, 15:27
1.16 Sat 2x2.5 miles - 9:22 through 2 miels, 11:41
9:47-12:06
normally, I would start out at 5:20-30 pace, then work down to around 5:10 pace by January. Getting below 5 m pace (in the winter, with wind chills and snow) meant I was in good shape (sub 8:00 3k). "
What champions do = totally, absolutely clueless
First off there's nothing exciting about this "workout". Im agreeing 100% with the OP. Steve Scott and even Malmö would do CONTINUOUS distance runs at a good hard effort. Not standing around wasting time with cruise intervals. Steve Scott's 52 min 10 milers>DTs 48 min 8x1 mile. Standing around for a minute at the paces he's running makes this too EASY. Maybe it would be different if he went 5:10, 5:10, 5:00, 4:50, 4:45, 4:45, 4:40, 4:35. That seems more appropriate for a 3:33 guy even in BASE Training. He shouldn't be that far off his fitness that he couldn't handle that.
Do you honestly think Scott was doing his 10 milers at exactly 5:12 pace?? I'm sure it was a progression run starting of relaxed and banging towards the end. Look at the log and see how frequently he does 10-12 milers at a good hard effort. There's even a day where he runs with Pete, supposed to be a conversational pace but ends up running sub 52.
What other champions do wrote:
What champions do wrote:Let me spell it out. There's a bunch of d2 runners in alamosa that can do 4:55 pace for 8 miles WITHOUT stopping at elevation.
Want to see what REAL WORLD CLASS middle distance training in January looks like take a look at the Steve Scott training log thread.
Want to see what REAL WORLD CLASS middle distance training in December looks like take a look at this thread.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2509797"For the 2x2 miles, I would start in December: for example 1992-1993:
12.12 Saturday 2x13m 's - 13:08, 13:04 (5:15 pace)
12.26 Sat 10:47, then 3 miles instead of 2, 15:27
1.16 Sat 2x2.5 miles - 9:22 through 2 miels, 11:41
9:47-12:06
normally, I would start out at 5:20-30 pace, then work down to around 5:10 pace by January. Getting below 5 m pace (in the winter, with wind chills and snow) meant I was in good shape (sub 8:00 3k). "
Great reference to the Spivy thread. I remember reading through it when it was posted back when running was discussed more. Everyone needs to read it.
As you point out: "Getting below 5 m pace(in the winter, with wind chills and snow)"
Hardly sunny Southern California.
And I'll add this from an early post in the spivy thread
Pete wrote:
Jim posted great gobs of detail about his training in the past. Search his name and you should find some treasure. Maybe I'm speaking out of turn, but it's worth noting that he was quite an anomaly, having very good success on low mileage, and maybe one should exercise caution trying to emulate his methods. I suspect they won't work for a lor of people.
What champions do wrote:
First off there's nothing exciting about this "workout". Im agreeing 100% with the OP. Steve Scott and even Malmö would do CONTINUOUS distance runs at a good hard effort. Not standing around wasting time with cruise intervals. Steve Scott's 52 min 10 milers>DTs 48 min 8x1 mile. Standing around for a minute at the paces he's running makes this too EASY. Maybe it would be different if he went 5:10, 5:10, 5:00, 4:50, 4:45, 4:45, 4:40, 4:35. That seems more appropriate for a 3:33 guy even in BASE Training. He shouldn't be that far off his fitness that he couldn't handle that.
Do you honestly think Scott was doing his 10 milers at exactly 5:12 pace?? I'm sure it was a progression run starting of relaxed and banging towards the end. Look at the log and see how frequently he does 10-12 milers at a good hard effort. There's even a day where he runs with Pete, supposed to be a conversational pace but ends up running sub 52.
Torrence is not Steve Scott. Given that Torrence has run 3:33 and 13:16, I think it reasonable to presume that he knows something about how to train for the 1500.
Look at the Diego Estrada thread to see how a REAL TEMPO should be run. AND at ALTITUDE!
This tends to be a problem with"milers" (people who go around saying oh "I'm a miler" .... I don't need to run more than 60 MPW). Focusing too heavily on race paced workouts without having the adequate aerobic support. This gives us a ton of 3:57-4:00 "milers blah blah blah" when world class 10k specialist can drop down and destroy a "miler".
Look at all the great milers 90-100+ miles a week! fast contious paced running are all hallmarks in their training programs.
Please don't mention outliers or Coe.
comparing what other pros do to what Rupp could do doesn't really work. Rupp is an American record holder and Olympic silver medalist. Its like looking at what u of Miami runners do for a workout and saying thats weak, Colorado could do it 10 secs a mile faster.
You guys are a bunch ignorants F&%%&! Clearly what works for Gaylen Rupp doesn't work for Torrence! That's his style of training, I once run a 6 mile tempo with Torrence back in 2012. It started with a pretty easy pace, last 3 miles was more moderate/fast pace with last mile at about 4:40. Later that spring I believe he ran 13:16 at Stanford! What works for one athlete may not work for others.
Shabang wrote:
Please don't mention outliers or Coe.
Padilla, Spivey, Webb, Krummenacker, Cruz, ......Coe. (to name a few)
Not every miler is meant to be a 5000/10000 runner:
Sometimes a 3:57 runner is really running over his best range at the mile, sometimes he's running under his best range.
It's also dangerous to fixate on volume as a panacea:
Moorcroft was a far better 5000m runner than Scott with less weekly mileage.
Scott had relatively horrible stamina beyond a few minutes duration.
The take home point here is volume doesn't necessarily tell you much.
As for the 10000m world record, world class miler capability has more or less been a requirement at least since the 1960s. Even Clarke started off as an 800/1500 runner.
This workout is easy as heck for a world class runner. I could have run with him for the first 5 reps and I'm a 4:40 miler/15:30 5k-er.