Jim Spivey and 5k training

Bump. Spivey's at asics meetings as he posted, maybe he'll catch this thread and add some training info.

Jim posted great gobs of detail about his training in the past. Search his name and you should find some treasure. Maybe I'm speaking out of turn, but it's worth noting that he was quite an anomaly, having very good success on low mileage, and maybe one should exercise caution trying to emulate his methods. I suspect they won't work for a lor of people.

Runbird:

Give me a week. Busy through Thursday this week, and then in Des Moines for the NCAA's Monday-Thursday next week.

js

rb:

Give me this information:

How many days a week are you training? 1x or 2x a day?

Longest run in terms of minutes?

Recent race (last few monnths)

thx,

js

Jim,

Did Dan McG give you the tee shirt? Hope you enjoy it.

Best Regards,

DC

Pete wrote: ...maybe one should exercise caution trying to emulate his methods. I suspect they won't work for a lor of people.

Just to be clear what I meant here so I don't come across as a complete ass, I'm not suggesting anyone shouldn't listen to the guy's advice. He's obviously experienced and knowledgeable. I'm just suggesting that the methods he followed to train for the 5k, back in his day, are unlikely to be the best way for most people to train for 5k. But of course there are probably rare talented guys like him out there who could flourish under the same training regime. Probably just not a high percentage of distance runners though. IMHO.

OK, I'll shut up now. :-)

Yes - I have a Brescia t-shirt in my hotel room - thanks! Also, thank you for helping me do my job, and let me bring Dan on board first as my assistant, and know doing what I do. I know you get great prices for the ASICS product you purchase, and even better service - yet, by supporting an idea I had, and helping us be successful, ASICS has been able to add Dan, and John Gregorek as well. I have to admit, I am pretty humbled at times how far we have come.

js

js - thank you. current training as follows:

7 days 2 x 3 days per week long run 90-145 65-75 week

1 tempo, 1 short reps day. followed this pattern to previous success, however am looking for more input.

newbie masters best 1545 all-time 1416

as Dr. Dave will say - "I only so many pieces of life pie" so my mileage max is not far from my current.

late-summer fall goal is to run 1430s, ultimate goal sub 1430.

As a sub 4:10 miler in high school who ran against Jim in high school (with only one victory, I believe, against many defeats), I cannot say enough about Jim's talent (I was no slouch and he always had gears I could never find) or his contribution to the sport. The fact that Jim is responsive to the community on these posts is terrific, and he continues to inspire us old guys, even if we are just into running 30 miles a week. Thanks again, Jim.

I am in Des Moines handing out NCAA packages to college coaches that we help. I have over 400 apparel items and 60 pairs of shoes in my hotel room that I need to divvy up and put in bags. Hotel room looks crazy!

Thoughts to 5k training for a high school athlete:

Here is what the runner-up at FL ran leading up to the event. Just to get you thinking in what I believe, how Dr. Dave put his fingerprint in my training, and Mike Durkin and Ken Popejoy\'s input.

A few notes: m=minutes DMP - Dave Martin Tempo run

You can see kk\'s thoughts to the workout and what times she ran/how she felt to the right

11.28.07 W 35 m\'s f, 8 x 100 e3obu morning run, felt good

arm/ab weights

.29 R 15 m\'s wu vf

12 m\'s DMP tempo running kind of slow

5 m\'s vf

4 short, steep hills felt good

4 m\'s vf

4 x :30 f (1)

.5 mile wd at 7:00 pace

leg weights

.30 F 35 m\'s f, 8 x 100 e3obu great!

12.1 S 15 m\'s wu, 6 x 100 felt strong from the start

2 x 200 f (100)[400] :36, :37

800 - 400f, 200g, 200f (4 m\'s) 2:32 wow! working hard, but I was really surprised with that fast of a time. Thinking, OK, I\'ve got to do this again.

800 - 300f, 200g, 300f (2 m\'s) 2:29 wow!

2 x 150 bu\'s (150) felt strong

4 x 100

.5 mile wd at 7:00 pace

weights

.2 S 45 m\'s f legs a little sore. Finished strong.

.3 M 15 m\'s wu, 6 x 100 e3obu

3 x :40 fgf (1) [2:30] Felt good!

3 x :20 gfg (1) [2:30]

2 x :40 bu\'s (1)

.5 mile wd at 7:00 pace

compare to earlier in the season, when coming off injury, I had to bring the training back slowly:

9.20.08 R 35 m\'s vf tired, legs sore, hot and slow.

.21 F 40 m\'s vf, cool morning, went easy.

1 hr bike

.22 S 50 m\'s bike, weights

.23 S 40 m\'s bike+45 m\'s run, pretty hot but OK, ran slow.

.24 M 12 m\'s wu

10 m\'s DMP

7 m\'s rest

4 x 100

4 x 1:30 f (1:45)[3:30]

3 x 1:30 f (1:45)

8 m\'s wd vf

It was hot and humid and this was tough! 400\'s were about 91 seconds.

I ran at 3 pm and I was exhausted the rest of the evening.

.25 T 30 m\'s f

35 m\'s bike

.26 W 13 m\'s wu

12 m\'s tempo run

5 m\'s vf

6 hills (they were small) Felt great on these hills.

5 m\'s vf

2 x 1 m\'s f (1)

5 m\'s wd vf

Not as hot today, and I felt strong.

.27 R 35 m\'s f

35 m\'s bike

weights

.28 F 35 m\'s f, 6 x 100

.29 S Race, 18:11

Weights

Let me know if you need the "key" :)

js

www.jimspivey.com

Hi Jim,

Thanks, but I need the key for some of those.

Thanks again

My guess:

11.28.07 W 35 m's f, 8 x 100 e3obu morning run, felt good

arm/ab weights

11.29.07 Thursday 15 minutes warmup very fast

12 minutes Dave Martin Pace tempo running kind of slow

5 minutess very fast

4 short, steep hills felt good

4 minutes very fast

4 x :30 fast (1:00 rest)

.5 mile warmdown at 7:00 pace

leg weights

11.30.07 Friday 35 minutes fast + 8 x 100 e3obu great!

12.1.07 Saturday 15 minutes warm up + 6 x 100 felt strong from the start

2 x 200 fast with 100 jog + 400 jog :36, :37

800 - 400 fast, 200g, 200 fast (4 minutes) 2:32 wow! working hard, but I was really surprised with that fast of a time. Thinking, OK, I've got to do this again.

800m with 300 fast, 200g, 300 fast (2 minutes) 2:29 wow!

2 x 150 buildup's (150) felt strong

4 x 100

0.5 mile warm down at 7:00 pace

weights

12.2.02 Sunday 45 minutes fast legs a little sore. Finished strong.

12.3.02 Monday 15 minutes warm up, 6 x 100 every 3 o?? buildup

3 x :40 fast g?? (easy) fast (1:00 rest) [2:30 between sets] Felt good!

3 x :20 g?? (easy) fast g?? (easy?) (1:00 rest) [2:30 between sets]

2 x :40 build up's (1:00 rest)

0.5 mile warmdown at 7:00 pace

Key:

Vf – very fresh pace f – fresh g- good h-hard

vf=slow as you want to go, recovery day

f = fresh pace. Depending on the time of the year, this is a relaxed intervals. Note that I could run :60 f 400's when I was fit, and also run 5:20 repeat miles when I was not - yet both 'F'

g- effort in running. Attempting to run faster

h- solid effort. Coach will always limit these efforts in practice.

M- minutes of activity

Wu – warm-up running at vf pace

Nt – no training day

Ct – cross-training day

Mrp – Marathon race pace for a tempo run. Solid, steady state running

Dmp – Dave Martin Pace running tempo run. Slower than MRP, usually longer in distanc

5x – 5 repetitions of an interval

(:40) – 40 seconds of vf running between intervals

[2] – 2 minutes of vf running between sets

6x100 – 6 running strides of 100 meters with 10-15 seconds standing between each

6 rs – 6 running strides of 100 meters with 10-15 seconds jog between each

2x=60 - A two a day workout, with an AM and PM workout that total 60 minutes

3-4 = 3-4 intervals, you can choose based upon how you feel

6.1 = June 1st

M = Monday, day of the week

e3obu - every third one build up the pace

this should help!

js

www.jsrc.us

The "key" I'm guessing is a little Igloi from the Mike Durkin influence?

"f" = fresh

"vf" = very fresh?

"g" = good

I could be wrong. See you in DM Jim!

I guess I was a little slow in responding!

Excellent. Good Stuff!. Thanks for the "key" as well. Great to see your website is completed. Once work settles a bit, can you post some of your log leading up to the 5k in Atlanta. You've posted great stuff from your 1500 miler days and i'm positive the 5k stuff is legendary! Thanks Jim.

Igloi influenced Joe Douglas, who coached/influenced Mike Durkin. 100% correct in your assessement.

Thoughts behind this are that some days, :30 second 200's feel fresh, relaxed. Two days later, :30's are too difficult, and :32 feels fresh. Should you push through to run :30, even though you are 'working' to run that pace? Or, run at the pace that is comfortable. Mike's belief is that you run how you feel. If you are running a series like this, which I did about 3 times during the spirng:

5x200 f (100)[400]

4-5x250 fgfgf (150)[400]

5x200 fgggf (100) [400]

4-5x250 various paces (150)[400]

and then maybe a 5th set:

5x200 f (100)

If Mike saw me workout, timeing my workout, only once in 11 years - May of 1992 - he was not there to say run faster or slower for the intevals given. I had to know his system, and apply it. Ken was there at most workouts in 1987, and each year through 1993. We had to figure out what Mike was looking for, and apply it to the workout.

I would run at a pace that I thought was making me better. If it was March or April, I knew getting the work in was most important - so slow down, sometimes to :36-:39 for 200, and put in the work. If it was June, and I had good pace intervals, if I ran 28.2 for a 200, Mike would ask was I pressing to run this pace. He wanted me to flow, and find the rhythum. In that way, 56 pace would feel as easy as 28 (when fit, mind).

js

Thanks for posting comments here. Your responses are always helpful and down to earth.

Dave Martin pace? Can you re-define this effort? Frequency?