Times are nice, but they do not matter in championships. In championships, place is all that matters. Centro is good tactically, all they need to do is work on his closing speed and not lose anything he already has.
Times are nice, but they do not matter in championships. In championships, place is all that matters. Centro is good tactically, all they need to do is work on his closing speed and not lose anything he already has.
Centro's form is off because he has an attitude-issue. Little Centro needs to mentally mature some more.
He might break the NR but it won't be the fastest time ever run by a US citizen, which is 3:27.40.
agc5k wrote:
Times are nice, but they do not matter in championships.
But they do matter when you comprehensively view a runner's career.
He has a couple of medals.
Wouldn't it be nice to add a record to the resumé?
Every runner wants to see how fast he can run.
Coe Did not train for the 800. He trained as a multi tier athlete.
Cram did not train for the 800 1:42 and World record 1500/Mile
Ovett did not train for the 800 Olympic 800m Champion
Aouita did not train for the 800 1:43/Multiple Wr at 3000/5000
Walker did not train for the 800 Olympic 1500 Champion
Scott did not train for the 800 yet ran 3:47 Mile
Coughlin did not train 800m yet ran 3:49 indoors
The above mentioned ( coe could be argued logically) ran very competitive 800m races off of Mile and Beyond training......
jdj wrote:
NOP Skeptic wrote:He only does 800 to keep his speed in check,
Running 1 or 2 800s does not keep your speed in check. Regularly doing speed work maintains your speed.
Are you really that anal about what I wrote?
Athletes typically run lower distance events to test their speed and keep it in check... That's what Centro does 800's for...
By your logic, 1500m athletes shouldn't even run 800's and 5k's, just work on speed and strength in practice, and only run 15's...
Mater a fact, I like how you say in your post, "Running 1 or 2 800s does not keep your SPEED IN CHECK. Regularly doing speed work MAINTAINS YOUR SPEED", so which was one is it? Keeping your speed in check and maintaining your speed is two different things, maintaining your speed wasn't part of what I orginally posted... I know speed training maintains speed, that's obvious, I'm talking about keeping your speed in check...
I think they should be focusing on the opposite... improving endurance at 5k. Much much more room to improve than at 800m. El G could run 12:50. Aquita 13:00? Lagat 12:55. Centro got 10th in XC he has good endurance and needs to keep honing it in. perhaps work on tactics that best suite your abilities! Look at Jenny Simpson clearly she is an endurance oriented 1500m specialist just like El G, Lagat, many others.... I believe the endurance oriented specialist are the ones capable of A) Faster times, B) are also more consistent as well.
Anyone recall what Renato mentioned about Silas Kiplagats training? When he first broke on the scene he was capable of 28:00at 10k with on 49" 400m speed 48.8" at best renato said. Silas at one point left Renato to focus more and more on the speed side of the event trying and forgot is endurance training and ran shit.... now as Renato reported earlier this year he is self coached with advise from Renato and is focusing more on his endurance with long fast run etc....
So temped is the Miler to go faster instead of further!
I think the 800m races he does is just prep work for an upcoming 1500m race.
A tune up.
It's not necessarily to test his 800 speed but to have his body feel a fast pace and work on closing out a race.
You can do that without running the 800 as fast as you can.
I do think it gives you 1500m confidence to run a fast 800.
I was a 1500m runner moved up from the 800.
My 1500m lifetime PR was 4 years after my 800m lifetime PR.
I'd run 800s as prep work. But was able to improve my 1500 PR a lot without improving my 800 PR.
My distance events improved in that time but were not very good.
My whole point is, it's 1500m specific training that makes you better at the 1500.
You can't look at 800 and 5000 PR's to pinpoint 1500m ability - it only gives you a range.
agc5k wrote:
Times are nice, but they do not matter in championships. In championships, place is all that matters. Centro is good tactically, all they need to do is work on his closing speed and not lose anything he already has.
Improve his closing speed? Yeah, because bad closing speed with get you a silver medal at a world championship. You, sir, just need to stop posting these stupid and random statements about training because you obviously have no clue what you're talking about.
For the people saying he NEEDS speed, you have to look at the athlete and apply it for the right approach. He is taking a top--->down approach. Meaning, he is coming at the 1500 from a strength oriented training plan. Some people will come at it from the other side, or both, but AlSal is just saying they neglected speed. Yea, it comes to a point where you have to work both sides, but emphasis is tampered with based on the individual.
Take Steve Magness' top 800m collegiate runner. He is a strong cross guy. They did traditional 800/1500 training and he did horrible. In outdoor they switched to 3k/5k training with "spices" of 800m specific and he ran a PR and school record of 1:48. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL.
webb didn't even break 1:46 until shortly before he ran sub 1:44. it was clear that he had the potential to run much, much faster at 800m prior to that. centro is the same way in that he has underachieved in not too many races at 800m, relative to his clear strength at 1500m and his strong last lap times. Sub-1:44 is a possibility and sub 3:29 in a Monaco style race. Even that wouldn't put him close to Kiprop and/or Kiplagat, who might run 3:26-8. But he'll be there at the end as always fighting for top three at World's and Olympics.
Wrong way wrote:
I think they should be focusing on the opposite... improving endurance at 5k. Much much more room to improve than at 800m. El G could run 12:50. Aquita 13:00? Lagat 12:55. Centro got 10th in XC he has good endurance and needs to keep honing it in. perhaps work on tactics that best suite your abilities! Look at Jenny Simpson clearly she is an endurance oriented 1500m specialist just like El G, Lagat, many others.... I believe the endurance oriented specialist are the ones capable of A) Faster times, B) are also more consistent as well.
Anyone recall what Renato mentioned about Silas Kiplagats training? When he first broke on the scene he was capable of 28:00at 10k with on 49" 400m speed 48.8" at best renato said. Silas at one point left Renato to focus more and more on the speed side of the event trying and forgot is endurance training and ran shit.... now as Renato reported earlier this year he is self coached with advise from Renato and is focusing more on his endurance with long fast run etc....
So temped is the Miler to go faster instead of further!
Why mention athletes that run for big time drug fraud Canova?
lol
"EPO doesn't work on Kenyans."
Then science proved that it does. Which everyone knew anyway. Everyone gets on AlSal but the fraud and drug cheat is Canova.
CentroFan wrote:
At the NXN Coaches Clinic Salazar was discussing Centro's previous training and how they have changed his current plan. Coach Salazar argued that Centro is strong enough as seen by the 13:20 5K last year but was lacking the 800m speed compared to the other top 1500m guys. They recognized this fault. Thus they researched, analyzed, and changed Centro's training plan to correct for this weakness. Mark my words this will give Centro just the boost needed to arrive at the 1-2-3 spots in every major and lead to a new AR in the 1500m.
http://www.runnerspace.com/video.php?video_id=128557#ooid=ZuaTg1cjr2WCaZnk1S66mg85eDEk4GFx
This makes sense because most of the top 1500 guys have 1:43x 800m credentials. Although, I don't necessarily think that type of 800m speed is necessary if you have sub-13 5000 strength for example. From a pure talent standpoint, I am amazed Centro has done as well as he has, but to get better, he is going to have come up with something different. I have said this many times and will continue to say it, your ability to race the distance below normal distance sets the bar.
CentroFan wrote:
At the NXN Coaches Clinic Salazar was discussing Centro's previous training and how they have changed his current plan. Coach Salazar argued that Centro is strong enough as seen by the 13:20 5K last year but was lacking the 800m speed compared to the other top 1500m guys. They recognized this fault. Thus they researched, analyzed, and changed Centro's training plan to correct for this weakness. Mark my words this will give Centro just the boost needed to arrive at the 1-2-3 spots in every major and lead to a new AR in the 1500m.
http://www.runnerspace.com/video.php?video_id=128557#ooid=ZuaTg1cjr2WCaZnk1S66mg85eDEk4GFx
What I like most about Centro is he is a smart, fearless, go for it racer.
Sure, he's still climbing the hill to be a top 3 contender regularly across an entire DL season. And, he's got some Hardware already.
It's always interesting to watch him race.
It cracks me up to hear that people think canova allows or encourages doping especially when it has been rosa's athletes who have tested positive.
I think there is a reason to hang a question mark on salazars athletes, but a question and a conviction are two different things.
When canova stated that epo doesn't work, he was speaking from a theoretical context. Epo use boosts red blood cells which would increase oxygen carrying capacity, but correspondingly it also lowers plasma volume making the heart work that much harder. What hasn't been tested is the cost benefit in performance, the only tests available measure a biological marker and not performance.
Good idea. I always thought Salazar's obsession with training middle distance runners like long distance runners had it's limits. It's great that Centro can run 13:20, but that's more than 3 times his race distance and there's not that much correlation between 5k times and 1500 times. Kiprop and Souleiman are the best 1500 runners and I doubt they could run 13:20, but they are both 1:43 guys. The 800 is more than half the 1500 race distance and I think correlates much better to 1500 success. Centro's main continuing problem was no matter how strong he was, he couldn't hang with a fast pace because his 800 speed was limited. If you're only 1:46-47, going out in 1:50 isn't possible. If he can get down to 1:44, going out fast is going to be much more manageable, not easy but not impossible like it was before.
oarjt904 wrote:
Did he address that fact that Webb was 13:10, 3:46.X and 1:43.XX and still couldn't do it???????
As discussed in the same seminar, he is an expert on best form and his athletes are tops, even better than world record holders and elite Kenyans. By that logic, centro.s superior form trumps Webb who lacks proper form despite his time credentials.
*rolleyes*
"See the sarcasm in my eyes"
Millennium
oarjt904 wrote:
Did he address that fact that Webb was 13:10, 3:46.X and 1:43.XX and still couldn't do it???????
Webb didn't do it, but probably was capable of it. 3:46 is roughly = to 3:29.
fred wrote:
What are the specific changes?
More 400s and 600s. Seriously.
Bonkers wrote:
Sounds like a reasonable goal to me. He has to take a little less than 2 seconds off his current PR to break the record and he seemed to make pretty significant strength gains last year.
Just needs to get in the right race
"Just needs to get in the right race."
LOL.
"Centro" tends to DNF in the right races.
I guess you're not even curious that Centro is stagnating in the 800/1500 while massively improving in the area MOST AMENDABLE TO EPO BENEFITS -- 3000/5000????
A Duck wrote:
What I like most about Centro is he is a smart, fearless, go for it racer.
Sure, he's still climbing the hill to be a top 3 contender regularly across an entire DL season.
That is putting it mildly, but then you are truly the ultimate "Centro" fanboy.
"Centrowitz’s finishes in 13 career DL races: 11th, 10th, 11th, 3rd, 8th, 4th, 10th, DNF, 8th, 16th(!), 12th, 8th, 8th." (From
http://www.letsrun.com/news/2014/07/lausanne-dl-preview)
If he was Kenyan and not American/white, he'd be lucky to get $1000 and accommodations to start DL races with a track record like that.