RE: I run 140miles a week but cant break 18.30 for 5kms,

It's called overtraining my friend.

How many of your 140 miles a week are run:

under 6 minutes?

6-7?

7-8?

8+?

Also how fast can you run 1 mile? 2 miles?

I'm of the opinion that there's a breakthrough waiting to happen, assuming you've accurately modeled your training. I agree that you should lower your mileage to even "just" 100 and put in 400s, 800s, and mile reps.

I also dont buy this. if the op was really that low on the genetic curve for running talent then i do not believe the op would be able to run 140 miles per week. Not really points out that if the 5k pr is near 18:30 then the easy run pace is probably around 8 min per mile. I think this is a massive OVER-estimation because the op would probably not be able to handle that much volume at that pace. instead i would venture the pace of these runs to be somewhere around 9-10 min per mile, which adds a lot more time to that weekly total.

as for advice, get more quality in. maybe you have maxed out your aerobic development and need to improve your other energy systems. you really may not even need to drop the milage all that much as well. just slowly swap in some, say, mile repeats for easy runs and let your body adapt. you clearly (if this is true) have great work capacity and can handle the breakdown well. good luck

trossi wrote:

Not really points out that if the 5k pr is near 18:30 then the easy run pace is probably around 8 min per mile. I think this is a massive OVER-estimation because the op would probably not be able to handle that much volume at that pace. instead i would venture the pace of these runs to be somewhere around 9-10 min per mile, which adds a lot more time to that weekly total.

Uh, my easy pace is 8 - 8:30 and I'm at like a 22 minute 5k. OP could easily be running easily faster than 8 minute miles.

i have no gentics

i have no one in my family that runs or has run

i was a chubby little fat kid at school that always got picked on.

i had enough when i was 16years old and i started running.

running until now 28years old

25km pb 1.47.32

half pb. 1.23

5km pb 18.38

3km pb 10.31

1500m pb 4.43

1km pb 2.52

some of them were along time ago.

i guess i use running as an escape from everyday life. a stress relief.

i have face depression and still do!

i find running the only thing in this world that makes me happy!

i just wished i got paid for it. im sick of buying new shoes every 4weeks!

Nice attempt at implying that high mileage doesn't work.Americans have done so well on the SPEEDWORK, SPEEDWORK, AND MORE SPEEDWORK approach.

Mileage isn't a magic bullet. It's only the first step. You have a great base (more than enough), now gradually introduce workouts at a variety of paces. If you want to improve your times you have to train smart.

john9090 wrote:

25km pb 1.47.32

half pb. 1.23

5km pb 18.38

3km pb 10.31

1500m pb 4.43

1km pb 2.52

that 1k and 1500m indicate you should run faster than 18:38.

i'd say you just need to do strides everyday, run hills as much as possible, and lower the mileage to even out the extra effort

It's quite simple. If your passion is to run sub-18:30 for 5km, then let's cut your mileage down to about 35 miles per week. The 5km is not about mileage, it's about intensity. Follow this schedule-

Mon - 5 miles at 7:00/mi

Tue - Light workout = 5 x 500m at 75/sec 400m, rec. 100m jog

Wed - Big workout = 5 x 1600m at 85 sec/400m, rec. 2 min

Thu - 5 miles at 7:00/mi

Fri - 7 miles at 6:35/mi pace

Sat - 5000m Time Trial at 6:00/mi

Sun - 1h20' long run

When you can nail this week, you can run sub-18:30.

1st off do marathons.

If you want to do 5k, then do this for training instead:

M- 8 miles and 4-6 strides

T- 20-30 min fartlek (base phase) or speed work (speed phase)

W- 10 miles

T- 8 miles and 4-6 strides

F- 4-5k tempo (Base phase) or 5-6k tempo (speed phase)

S- 12 miles

S- rest day

If you want to keep the high mileage, up the long run to 15 miles and add a 2nd run of 4 miles Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday then add a 5 mile 2nd run Tuesday and Friday. I don't know or care how many miles that comes out to in a week. The miles don't matter. Its the training stimulus that matters.

100 mpw for an 18:30 guy takes as many hours as 140 mpw for a 13:00 guy.

140 mpw for an 18:30 guy takes as many hours as 200 mpw for a 13:00 guy.

And the 13:00 guy has a lot more lifetime training hours than you do, so he is better able to tolerate high volume training than you.

Maybe you should do 60 mpw?

First I want to say that if not a troll, this is awesome. So cool that you love running enough to run so much. Ignore the haters. Anyone can be talented but not anyone gets off their butt and runs that much.

What do you think you could run a 400m in right now? That might tell you the problem.

Advice:

1. Start doing strides. Every day (why not), end one of your runs with 6-8 by about 15 seconds fast running. Try to focus on having good form, don't sprint, but go fast. Plenty of rest in between.

2. Start doing more shorter quality workouts. Example: 8-12 x 400 fast. Take plenty of rest in between but make sure they're quite a bit faster than 5k race pace.

3. Maybe try doing some power-based weight training or hill sprints for strength.

4. Be sure to get enough rest and recovery if you up the intensity, may need to drop the mileage to compensate.

why would you do 140 mpw? even 55 would do it and you would be able to recover a lot more. Also repetition training is key.

Try something like this:

day 1: 1hour at 7:20 per mile

day 2 :10 x 300m 1min rest about 58 (you can slow it down if it's too fast)

day 3 : repeat day 1 maybe a bit slower if you're tired

day 4 : 5 x 1000m at 3:36 rest whatever you feel like

day 5: RECOVERY DAY

day 6: a long run would do like 80 minutes. focus on being fluid and smooth forget the watch.

day 7: something like 600m reps maybe in 2 min. try to do at least 6.

From there you can mix it up and eventualy hit the 400m and 2000m reps.

By now i sugest taking 5 days off from those 140 weeks and start from root.

miles will do good until a certain limit, but you cannot replace quality.

maybe you can do 17 low or 16 high who knows? good luck.

You train slow and race slow. Knock the 3 times a day training on its head as well - off course you are not actually doing this BS training but people do no do enough faster stuff generally

If you run 140 miles a week, why have you still not run a marathon? 1:23 is a decent half marathon pb, and your mileage is so high. Just increase your long run and run marathons. Why do you care about 5K?

yes that slow wrote:

trossi wrote:

Not really points out that if the 5k pr is near 18:30 then the easy run pace is probably around 8 min per mile. I think this is a massive OVER-estimation because the op would probably not be able to handle that much volume at that pace. instead i would venture the pace of these runs to be somewhere around 9-10 min per mile, which adds a lot more time to that weekly total.

Uh, my easy pace is 8 - 8:30 and I'm at like a 22 minute 5k. OP could easily be running easily faster than 8 minute miles.

And how many miles per week do you run? I'm not going to argue that your "easy pace" is overly fast because it may in fact be completely fine, but the op is running 140 miles per week. The amount of recovery needed here would be insane and running easy runs slower is a very simple explanation as to why the op may be able to do the 140 miles per week but still not go sub 18:30.

Again, I think this is bs but I am treating it as legit

Nice work here. 8/10

If you're in you're in your 70's this is a good time. Keep up the running.

Otherwise I'd drop to about 50-60 mpw. Your times are not worth 140 mpw.