Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 10/26

Stone Cutter- Very nice week! Looks like you had a very strong "simulation" run on Saturday. Mid-2:40s definitely seem very realistic.

Hereford- Great Sunday run just 48 hours off of a solid mile repeat workout.

Forcerunner- That's really impressive how quickly you recovered from a half marathon of that caliber. Looking good man.

Pewow- Very nice 1K workout and a solid week overall.

Matthias- Two very solid weeks of training. Seems like the 5K and the Friday track session all indicate 33-min fitness. Keep up the good work over the next few weeks.

Slartzio- Nice week. Haven't you run 60-61 for 10-miles? Maybe shoot for 23-23:30 for the 4?

Ghola- Nice race! sub-27 on that course is no joke. Any ideas for goal races in the winter/spring?

StevenJ- Very well structured and thought out week and nice rust buster to finish it off. Looks like you took a few solid steps towards getting back in shape.

Distance Fan- Nice week and good luck! That's about what I am wearing for Saturday too (Shorts/Singlet/Calf Sleeves/Throwaway gloves) although I am only in the half.

Reed- Congrats on another nice race this weekend! Sounds like you hung on tough after making some gutsy moves earlier. Way to go man.

CMM268- Nice recovery week, I have seen this many times from you but it still never ceases to amaze me how quickly you bounce back from 26.2 like that.

JSrun5k- Fingers crossed for good news for you man.

Reg Fields- Nice week man. 4 more weeks to go.

Habs- Sounds like you had a great race to cap off your season. On to track season?

Renewed Marathoner- Very solid week with impressive quality sessions. Keep up the nice work.

Runnersfix- I am curious to see if those workouts progress to where I think they're going. (4-5x 3mile by early January?) But looking great as usual.

NP1112- Hope you're walking normal today. 60-70mi tuneup for the 100 this weekend?

Back into it- welcome back, that's a very impressive on/off run on Wednesday

Bonham- Damn man, sounds like quite the ordeal with the break in. Also, congrats on the course record. Finally, to answer your comment from last week I have heard the rule of thumb for recovering from peak races is to take 1 easy day for every mile (or 1.61 km for you Northern folks) you raced. (so about 26 days for a marathon). For what it's worth, I ran a half last weekend, exactly 4 weeks + 1 day after my marathon and it was the first hard effort where I felt decent.

Sps- That's a remarkably consistent effort on your easy runs. I don't use HR monitors, but when I check once in awhile I am usually between 115-125, but I am also probably a little older than you. (so the lower HR)

Kendo- Nice result considering you were running sick and hung tough those last 2-2.5 miles. Still got another shot in 3 weeks right?

Netwerk Error- Sorry to hear man. Hope the diagnosis is just a worst case estimate and you get better news when/if you get a second opinion.

Week 4 of 16

Goal Race - Houston Marathon (Or USA Half Marathon champs)

"B" races -

11/1 - Monumental Half Marathon

11/16 - Rock n Roll Las Vegas Half Marathon

Total miles - 101

Monday - 13 - 7.5 easy AM / 5.5 easy PM

Tuesday - 15 - 9 easy AM / 6 easy PM

Wednesday - 17 - 12 moderate/hilly AM / 5 easy PM

Thursday - 19 - 11.5 AM (workout) / 7.5 easy PM

Friday - 15 - 11 easy AM / 4 easy PM

Saturday - 13 - 8.5 easy AM / 4.5 easy PM

Sunday - 9 - 9 easy

Thursday workout: 2mi tempo - 1 mi tempo - 6x (2min hard, 2 min easy). I had something else scheduled, but I was still a bit tired from that half last Sunday so I bailed on the workout halfway through and ran a fartlek by feel. Honestly still felt a little tired for the next 2-3 days and it wasn't until this morning that I started having some "pop" in my legs again.

Going to taper for the half this weekend and see how my legs respond. Hoping for at least a solid showing, with an outside shot at a PR even.

Ghola: I was actually saying Franklin park isn't that bad. In college (I went to a NESCAC school) it was often the fastest course we'd run all year (with the possible exception of Conn Colleges course). Probably didn't help that by mid October every course would be drenched and muddy as hell.

JSrun5k: Glad to hear you're about ready to get back to running! Be careful the first few weeks, though.

habs: Cool to hear that you finally got comfortable running your own race despite what others are doing. Not always the best thing to do, but it's definitely a good skill to have.

renewed marathoner: Hope the sciatic nerve stays calm going forward. Great to hear you felt great by Sunday, though!

RunnersFix: Damn impressive week, there. Looking forward to following your progression.

Np1112: Averaging 7:30s for that long, despite the "wheels falling off" after 32 miles, and despite the wind, is pretty damn impressive. Congrats on the overall placing, and good luck with the recovery going forward to the 100!

back into it: Welcome back! Any idea what marathon (or at least in what season) you're aiming for?

Bonham: Sorry to hear about the (attempted burglary?) troubles! Also the onset of winter. Looks like it might snow in New England soon, too.

sps: Another solid looking week. Keep up the good work!

Kendo: Unfortunate that the cold came right at the first time. I know when I have colds I'm usually OK with easy running, but as soon as I start asking too much of my body it rebels. Glad to hear you're still optimistic going forward!

Netwerk Errer: Oh geez. Really sorry to hear about that. I hope your recovery goes faster than predicted! Also, any idea how that happened? I don't think of MCL injuries as a typical thing to happen during distance running, and particularly road races.

TheGarbageDisposal: Wow. I guess even you don't recover fully from a half marathon in a matter of days while running 100 mpw. I hope your legs continue feeling good through Saturday's race!

Stone: I like to race a half with 4-3 weeks left to see where I'm at. I feel like it is a better predictor than just going on workouts alone. Might be something to consider. (You are doing amazing btw, keep it up!)

Hereford: Nice run on saturday. 12 miles at goal pace this early, looking good.

Force: Wow....just wow

Pewow: How hard did those 1000s feel? If they felt pretty relaxed then I think 17:30 is there for you.

Matthias: Good to see the soleus is better. Nice Race, happy birthday!

Slartzio: Nice recovery week. I'd say you can get 6:00 pace for 4, or at least very close to it.

Ghola: Very good race. I think I ran a 10k there in '99 or 2000 (NCAA regional meet). I remember the remnants of a zoo there? Maybe it isn't the same place.

StevenJ: I think you forgot a link in there. Great workout tuesday, were you alternating 8k/10k paces and how much rest/jog in between?

Distance Fan: I would go gloves and arm sleeves as long as you don't mind ditching them during the race. I usually race in what I've been training in though, so if you haven't done it yet, race day isn't the day to be trying something new. Good luck!

Reed: Nice race. It sounds like you are a little disappointed but you said it yourself, it was the best you've done at NIRCA Regionals. Have to be happy about that! (the competitor in us always wants to do better)

CMM: I'd go with some shorter races and target spring marathon personally. Squats/lunges/calf raises, some combination of that would be pretty much all you need.

JSRun5k: Welcome back (hopefully)

Reg Fields: Congrats on the all time high! Are you going to run the full marathon?

Habs: Nice season. Enjoy the last race.

Renewed: I'm guessing the sciatic pain is from the farm work?

RunnersFix: What is your goal time? That 2x3mile is amazing!

NP1112: Great race! Get some rest, you've earned it (maybe some details too!)

back into it: welcome back.

Bonham: Boo snow, keep it in the Northwest please...

Kendo: You did well, it was probably more of the cold than anything else.

Netwerk: omg, how did you even finish? Why didn't you just bail!

Pikachu: solid week, i need some joy, send it along please

Garbage: Well, at least we know you are human. Good luck!

Bonham-I swore I was going to take some downtime but for now will mainly use singles and easy running for at least 1.5 more weeks before adding some structured workouts. Definitely enjoyed my time in Vegas, hard not to:) Sorry to hear about your condo, that's crazy someone scaled up to try and break in. Regarding the cold weather, I busted out the gloves for the first time this morning although it was only in the 40s here!

Netwerk Errer-so sorry to hear about the injury--here's to a speedy recovery!

GarbageDisposal-Good luck on the half this weekend. What will be your deciding factor for the full vs half in Jan?

Thanks to everyone on the strength advice...squats & lunges will definitely be in the cards

More comments later..

@Garbage disposal Yes, I did 62:4x in fall 2013. The thing is, I was always going for mileage in the early part of 2014, and I never really had fresh legs to hit workouts like I should.

Now, after a pretty long summer break I'm changing things a bit and I'm doing less miles and more quality. Hopefully that change would be a good stimulus, and after some consistent weeks I could reap the benefits of more mileage in the early part of the year. That's pretty much what I'm hopeful for, I feel my aerobic is good, I just need to do more fast stuff and getting used to it. My fitness goal is basically to lower "comfortably hard" to 6 minute miles, and begin able to do short races faster than that.

Good luck with the half!

Netwerk Errer wrote:

Once and future- Bad, bad day! Ruptured my medial knee ligament. 3-4 months of rehab needed. Tried to push through it but every time I opened my stride, my knee would collapse. Had to walk the last seven miles. 3.55 finish time.

Wishing you a speedy recovery.!

Pikachu- Ah, you must have posted at the same time as me. Anyways, looks like you're getting in pretty god shape in a hurry. The one thing that jumped out at me is how you are adjusting your training on a day-to-day basis (in particular shortening the long run since your tempo went faster than expected). That's really interesting to me and I hope to learn more about these type of adjustments as you post more of your training.

Distance Fan- I am guessing you'll be coming in around the same time as NP1112's brother so we'll try to cheer for you if we see you out on the course. Good luck man!

CMM268- The qualifying standard to get into the half is 67:00, and unlike in past years there doesn't appear to be as much flexibility on the time requirement so my 67:44 isn't cutting it right now. I was told if I hit the standard I might get in if the race isn't full, otherwise I am entered in full for now. It's gotta happen this weekend or in Vegas, but I won't be heartbroken if I am running the full since it's a flat course with plenty of competition.

Slartzio- Ah, I looked at the Daniels Running Formula calculator and it looks like that 62:4x 10-mile is about equivalent to 30:00 for 5-miles, so 23-mid to 24 minutes would seem like a good preliminary goal for 4 miles.

Thanks everyone for the good luck wishes.

TheGarbageDisposal wrote:

CMM268- The qualifying standard to get into the half is 67:00, and unlike in past years there doesn't appear to be as much flexibility on the time requirement so my 67:44 isn't cutting it right now. I was told if I hit the standard I might get in if the race isn't full, otherwise I am entered in full for now. It's gotta happen this weekend or in Vegas, but I won't be heartbroken if I am running the full since it's a flat course with plenty of competition.

Now that you mention it, a guy in my running club ran a 68 and said he was shut out because it was sold out and there was no flexibility. I didnt realize your pR was so close, for some reason I thought you were 66:44. Hopefully that's a sign of things to come over the next two races:)

Sps, yes I'll be running the full. Hope you get healthy soon!

cmm268 wrote:

TheGarbageDisposal wrote:

CMM268- The qualifying standard to get into the half is 67:00, and unlike in past years there doesn't appear to be as much flexibility on the time requirement so my 67:44 isn't cutting it right now. I was told if I hit the standard I might get in if the race isn't full, otherwise I am entered in full for now. It's gotta happen this weekend or in Vegas, but I won't be heartbroken if I am running the full since it's a flat course with plenty of competition.

Now that you mention it, a guy in my running club ran a 68 and said he was shut out because it was sold out and there was no flexibility. I didnt realize your pR was so close, for some reason I thought you were 66:44. Hopefully that's a sign of things to come over the next two races:)

I guess it depends on which "half" he is talking about. From my understanding the open half accepts general registration for people with a qualifying time (somehing like 4 hr marathon / 1:50 half) through the end of May and lottery registration in June, so it's been sold out for months. They are also hosting the USA half marathon champs next year (the race I am trying to get into) and to get into that race you need to run 67:00 or a full marathon or 10k equivalent. I don't even know if they are giving elite entries to the open half since there's no prize money in that race.

Hoping to make that 66:44 happen, although I would be ecstatic with 66-anything.

TheGarbageDisposal Thanks! I'm doing the Boston Marathon this spring, and depending on where I'm working (finishing grad school this semester), hoping to break 15 indoors. Good luck this weekend!

StevenJ Ah, I ran in the midwest in college, so any semblance of a hill marks a "tough" course. I've gotten soft since the days of running Holmdel/Van cortland/Belmont in high school.

sps yep, same place. There's an old bear cage at the top of the hill.

Netwerk Errer Damn, that sucks. Hope you recover soon.

Thanks. Yeah, I'm going to try to hook up with NP1112's brother and see if we can't work together for a while at least. I'll be pretty easy to spot: Bright Orange shoes, bright orange calf sleeves, maroon St. Jude Hero's singlet, and black shorts. I'll complete the "hobby jogger" look with my water bottle ;).I've not practiced drinking from little cups at pace much, so I'm carrying my own as a back up. I do it for pretty much everything over 10k anyway. I am probably going to wear arm sleeves even though I never have used them before. I'm fortunate that I've never had a chafing issue with clothes of any sort, but if they bug me I can always chuck them. I've got grey ones at the moment, but I'm trying to find black today. Must be fashionable!!! ;)Good luck to you. Hope you get your qualifier. I'm hoping to get under 1:30 for the half in a year or so; so sub 1:07 seems crazy fast to me!

TheGarbageDisposal wrote:

Distance Fan- I am guessing you'll be coming in around the same time as NP1112's brother so we'll try to cheer for you if we see you out on the course. Good luck man

Thanks everyone for the good luck wishes.

Reg Fields - Congrats on the all-time mileage record. That's quite an impressive week. I know you are doing NY this weekend - make sure you save something for Philly.

Slartzio - I am a fairly muscular 167 lbs and wouldn't be able to stand losing much more weight than 4-5 lbs before race day. Though, to be honest, that 4-5 lbs is probably all in my core area, haha.

Netwerk Errer - Egads, man! Regardless of when you start running again, I hope you feel better soon and that the knee doesn't affect your everyday activities. That's terrible!

back into it - Welcome! It will be nice to have another poster in the league of Runnersfix and Pikachu. I hope you continue posting so we can follow your training.

Kendo - If at first you don't succeed... :)

TheGarbageDisposal - Ha, I was just joking about "jumping in" another half and now I see you are jumping in another half this weekend. Enjoy the road trip with Np1112.

Ghola- That's awesome (running Boston), you should be in prime shape to slice 10+ minutes off of your debut time. Any chance you'll find a job somewhere high altitude as you keep chasing the dream? (although that might breaking 15 indoors a little difficult, unless you're willing to travel)

Distance Fan- Just keep plugging away. I was just thinking about how when I last ran this race (in 2009) I ran a then-PR of 75:36, and that was less than 2 months after breaking 1:20 for the first time.

The Stone Cutter- Haha, I didn't want to call you out on small details but I think you were talking about me jumping into a half this PAST weekend. Truth be told this race has been on my schedule since the beginning of September and it was going to be my big attempt at a sub-67, but due to my garbage disposal like eating habits after Air Force marathon I feel like I am slightly behind schedule so I got an entry to Las Vegas next month to buy myself some time. I flirted with the idea of training through this weekend, but NP1112 told me if I stink it up in his hometown race I better find another place to stay, so make no mistake about it I am tapering for this and giving it my all on Saturday morning. If nothing else it should give me an idea of where I stand fitness wise and also get in a (hopefully) solid race.

TheGarbageDisposal- Getting a second opinion from my usual sports injury therapist this week. I have high hopes that it's not as bad as originally thought.

StevenJ- Not too sure what happened man. I have never had medial knee issues before. The only thing I can even think of is the chamber on some of the course.

sps- I had pretty much bailed. I had my singlet off and was walking along the course to meet a few of my mates. I had spent 20 minutes in the medical tent and was only about 2.5 miles left to go when I met them. I just decided that I wanted to finish the race. I knew at that stage that this was going to be my last marathon for another 5+ years, so I couldn't DNF. It took 1.32 to do the last 10k but I finished the bloody thing. Hopefully, that will be the hardest race I will ever do.

Netwerk Errer, I'm so sorry to hear about your injury. I've followed this thread all summer and fall, and have been rooting for and motivated by you guys. Your determination to finish in the wake of such a severe injury is impressive. Hope you recover quickly.

sps: Yeah, I missed the course link in my first post. I posted it a little bit later, but for ease of finding, here it is again

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=6471728

- as I said before, the hill at 2.5 miles is much smaller than the profile shows.

The Tuesday workout was probably pretty close to alternating 8k and aerobic threshold/steady state/whatever you call it pace, going continuously (AeT as "recovery") except for when I changed into spikes after 4800.

Netwerk Errer: Damn. Not that I'd say it feels good when you know an injury is your fault (as has happened to me in the past), but to have a major injury that you couldn't have done anything to prevent must reach new levels of suck. I guess it will depend on the second opinion, but is this something you'll probably need surgery for, or can it be treated by other means (internet search seems to indicate it could be either for just MCL injuries)? Anyways, work hard on the rehab and we'll look forward to you rejoining us soon!