Why no American men under 2:10 in marathon?

Rank Time Name Country Race Place RaceDate

341 2:07:20 Rousseau, Vincent BEL Berlin 2 9/24/95

106 2:06:05 da Costa, Ronaldo BRA Berlin 1 9/20/98

181 2:06:34 dos Santos, Marilson BRA London 4 4/17/11

237 2:06:52 Rey, Julio ESP Hamburg 1 4/23/06

348 2:07:23 Roncero, Fabián ESP Rotterdam 2 4/18/99

357 2:07:26 Roncero, Fabián ESP Rotterdam 1 4/19/98

362 2:07:27 Rey, Julio ESP Hamburg 1 4/27/03

389 2:07:34 Peña, Antonio ESP Otsu 1 3/4/01

416 2:07:38 Rey, Julio ESP Hamburg 1 4/24/05

444 2:07:42 Rios, José ESP Otsu 1 3/7/04

471 2:07:46 Rey, Julio ESP Hamburg 1 4/22/01

478 2:07:47 Peña, Antonio ESP Berlin 2 9/10/00

484 2:07:48 Cortés, Francisco Javier ESP Hamburg 2 4/22/01

186 2:06:36 Zwierzchiewski, Benoit FRA Paris 2 4/6/03

215 2:06:48 El Himer, Driss FRA Paris 4 4/6/03

270 2:07:02 El Himer, Driss FRA Amsterdam 1 10/21/01

373 2:07:30 Tambwé, Patrick FRA Tiberias 1 1/12/12

313 2:07:13 Jones, Steve GBR Chicago 1 10/20/85

346 2:07:22 Baldini, Stefano ITA London 5 4/23/06

369 2:07:29 Baldini, Stefano ITA London 6 4/14/02

132 2:06:16 Takaoka, Toshinari JPN Chicago 3 10/13/02

231 2:06:51 Fujita, Atsushi JPN Fukuoka 1 12/3/00

254 2:06:57 Inubushi, Takayuki JPN Berlin 2 9/26/99

313 2:07:13 Sato, Atsushi JPN Fukuoka 3 12/2/07

395 2:07:35 Kodama, Taisuke JPN Beijing 1 10/19/86

429 2:07:40 Taniguchi, Hiromi JPN Beijing 2 10/16/88

433 2:07:41 Takaoka, Toshinari JPN Tokyo 1 2/13/05

484 2:07:48 Fujiwara, Arata JPN Tokyo 2 2/26/12

498 2:07:50 Takaoka, Toshinari JPN Chicago 3 10/10/04

341 2:07:20 Bong-Ju, Lee KOR Tokyo 2 2/13/00

457 2:07:44 Bong-Ju, Lee KOR Rotterdam 2 4/19/98

493 2:07:49 Yi-Yong, Kim KOR Rotterdam 4 4/18/99

63 2:05:27 Gharib, Jaouad MAR London 3 4/26/09

67 2:05:30 Goumri, Abderrahim MAR London 3 4/13/08

81 2:05:42 Khannouchi, Khalid MAR Chicago 1 10/24/99

104 2:06:04 Goumri, Abderrahim MAR Chicago 2 10/11/09

210 2:06:46 El Mouaziz, Abdelkader MAR Chicago 5 10/13/02

215 2:06:48 Kisri, Rachid MAR Paris 5 4/5/09

237 2:06:52 El Mouaziz, Abdelkader MAR London 4 4/14/02

251 2:06:55 Gharib, Jaouad MAR London 3 4/25/10

299 2:07:10 Khannouchi, Khalid MAR Chicago 1 10/19/97

302 2:07:11 El Mouaziz, Abdelkader MAR London 1 4/22/01

308 2:07:12 Gharib, Jaouad MAR London 3 4/18/04

326 2:07:16 Gharib, Jaouad MAR Beijing Olympics 2 8/24/08

336 2:07:19 Khannouchi, Khalid MAR Chicago 2 10/11/98

336 2:07:19 Gharib, Jaouad MAR Fukuoka 3 12/3/06

383 2:07:33 El Mouaziz, Abdelkader MAR London 2 4/16/00

383 2:07:33 Bouramdane, Abderrahime MAR London 4 4/25/10

448 2:07:43 Annani, Adil MAR London 4 4/22/12

457 2:07:44 Goumri, Abderrahim MAR London 2 4/22/07

457 2:07:44 Gharib, Jaouad MAR London 5 4/22/12

493 2:07:49 Gharib, Jaouad MAR London 2 4/17/05

336 2:07:19 Espinosa, Andrés Perez MEX Boston 2 4/18/94

424 2:07:39 Szost, Henryk POL Otsu 2 3/4/12

186 2:06:36 Pinto, António POR London 1 4/16/00

308 2:07:12 Lopes, Carlos POR Rotterdam 1 4/20/85

176 2:06:33 Thys, Gert RSA Tokyo 1 2/14/99

251 2:06:55 Ramaala, Hendrick RSA London 3 4/23/06

285 2:07:06 Syster, Ian RSA London 5 4/14/02

285 2:07:06 Thys, Gert RSA Seoul 1 3/14/04

365 2:07:28 Thugwane, Josiah RSA Fukuoka 1 12/7/97

457 2:07:44 Ramaala, Hendrick RSA London 5 4/26/09

465 2:07:45 Thys, Gert RSA Chicago 3 10/11/98

493 2:07:49 Syster, Ian RSA Beijing 1 10/19/03

348 2:07:23 Rothlin, Viktor SUI Tokyo 1 2/17/08

341 2:07:20 Kiprotich, Stephen UGA Enschede 1 4/17/11

498 2:07:50 Kiprotich, Stephen UGA Tokyo 3 2/26/12

323 2:07:15 Baranovskiy, Dmitriy UKR Fukuoka 2 12/3/06

383 2:07:33 Kuzin, Aleksandr UKR Linz 1 4/15/07

40 2:04:58 Hall, Ryan USA Boston 4 4/18/11

74 2:05:38 Khannouchi, Khalid USA London 1 4/14/02

99 2:05:56 Khannouchi, Khalid USA Chicago 1 10/13/02

137 2:06:17 Hall, Ryan USA London 5 4/13/08

265 2:07:01 Khannouchi, Khalid USA Chicago 1 10/22/00

276 2:07:04 Khannouchi, Khalid USA London 4 4/23/06

478 2:07:47 Ritzenhein, Dathan USA Chicago 9 10/7/12

strike kiprotich from that list.

But if you look at the credentials of the guys remaining on this list, all of them sub 2:08 marathoners, you will not understand why we don't get very many sub 2:10 runners. Bobby Curtis is getting closer, but he has a pr of 27:24.

Here are two non-updated 5000m and 10000m lists. Plenty of these guys are/were capable of sub 2:10.

10,000m Men Overall All-Time

Rank Performance PB Name DOB Club Venue Date

Rupp 26:44/26:48

Solinsky 26:59

1 27:13.98 27:13.98 Mebrahtom Keflezighi 05.05.75 Nike Palo Alto, CA 4-May-01 (2:08)

2 27:16.99 27:16.99 Abdihakem Abdirahman 01.01.77 Nike Eugene, OR 8-Jun-08 (2:09)

3 27:20.56 27:20.56 Mark Nenow 11.16.57 Athletics West Brussells, BEL 5-Sep-86

4 27:22.28 27:22.28 Dathan Ritzenhein 12.30.82 Nike Berlin, GER 17-Aug-09 (ran 2:07:47 eventually)

Curtis 27:24

5 27:25.61 27:25.61 Alberto Salazar 08.07.58 Athletics West Oslo, NOR 26-Jun-82 (ran 2:08)

6 27:29.16 27:29.16 Craig Virgin 08.02.55 Paris, FRA 17-Jul-80

7 27:31.34 27:31.34 Todd Williams 03.07.69 adidas Knoxville, TN 6-Apr-95

8 27:33.48 27:33.48 Galen Rupp 05.08.86 Nike Palo Alto, CA 29-Apr-07

9 27:33.93 27:33.93 Alan Culpepper 09.15.72 adidas Palo Alto, CA 4-May-01 (ran 2:09 1st time out)

10 27:34.72 27:34.72 Alan Webb 01.13.83 Nike Palo Alto, CA 30-Apr-06

11 27:36.99 27:36.99 Tim Nelson 02.27.04 Oregon Track Club Palo Alto, CA 2-May-09

12 27:37.17 27:37.17 Bruce Bickford 03.12.57 Stockholm, SWE 2-Jul-85

13 27:37.45 27:37.45 Bob Kennedy 08.18.70 Nike Palo Alto, CA 30-Apr-04

14 27:37.74 27:37.74 Anthony Famiglietti 11.08.78 adidas Palo Alto, CA 30-Apr-06

15 27:41.05 27:41.05 Ed Eyestone 06.15.61 Reebok Walnut, CA 27-Apr-85

16 27:42.19 27:42.19 Dan Browne 06.24.75 Nike Palo Alto, CA 30-Apr-04

17 27:42.91 27:42.91 Jorge Torres 08.22.80 Nike Palo Alto, CA 29-Apr-07

18 27:43.13 27:43.13 Ed Moran 05.27.81 Nike Palo Alto, CA 29-Apr-07

19 27:43.6 27:43.6 Steve Prefontaine 01.25.51 Nike Eugene, OR 27-Apr-74

20 27:43.64 27:43.64 James Carney 05.24.78 New Balance Palo Alto, CA 29-Apr-07

21 27:43.7 27:43.7 Paul Cummings 09.05.53 Pacific Coast Club Walnut, CA 28-Apr-84

22 27:45.20 27:45.20 Steve Plasencia 10.28.56 Seattle, WA 25-Jul-90

23 27:45.91 27:45.91 Frank Shorter 10.31.47 Florida Track Club London, ENG 29-Aug-75 (2:10)

24 27:46.80 27:46.80 Pat Porter 05.31.59 Athletics West Walnut, CA 23-Apr-88

25 27:46.9 27:46.9 Garry Bjorklund 04.22.51 Walnut, CA 28-Apr-84

26 27:47.0 27:47.0 Tony Sandoval 05.19.54 Athletics West Walnut, CA 28-Apr-84

27 27:47.25 27:47.25 Bill McChesney 01.08.59 Athletics West Oslo, NOR 11-Jul-81

28 27:48.06 27:48.06 Scott Bauhs 05.11.86 Chico State Palo Alto, CA 4-May-08

29 27:50.48 27:50.48 Fasil Bizuneh 05.05.80 Nike Palo Alto, CA 4-May-08

30 27:53.0 27:53.0 Chris Fox 10.22.58 Brooks Montreal, CAN 10-Jul-95

31 27:53.1 27:53.1 Greg Meyer 09.18.55 Brooks Williamsburg, VA 2-Apr-83

32 27:54.19 27:54.19 Doug Brown 03.01.52 Athletics West Stockholm, SWE 3-Jul-78

33 27:54.41 27:54.41 Josh Rohatinsky 03.07.82 Nike Eugene, OR 4-Jul-08

34 27:55.17 27:55.17 Nicholas Rogers 05.02.75 Nike Palo Alto, CA 5-May-00

35 27:55.23 27:55.23 Jim Hill 07.01.61 adidas Eugene, OR 9-Apr-83

36 27:56.90 27:56.90 Clint Wells 05.02.75 Nike Palo Alto, CA 3-May-02

37 27:58.02 27:58.02 Brad Hauser 03.28.77 Nike Palo Alto, CA 3-May-02

38 27:58.41 27:58.41 Gerard Donakowski 02.20.60 Athletics West Oslo, NOR 5-Jul-86

39 27:59.1 27:59.1 Thom Hunt 03.17.58 San Diego, CA Walnut, CA 24-Apr-82

40 27:59.31 27:59.31 Adam Goucher 02.18.75 Nike Eugene, OR 4-Jul-08

41 27:59.35 27:59.35 Shannon Butler 01.24.67 Hengelo, NED 25-Jun-91

42 27:59.70 27:59.70 Aaron Ramirez 07.29.64 Mizuno Walnut, CA 20-Apr-91

43 27:59.72 27:59.72 Ian Dobson 02.06.82 adidas Palo Alto, CA 1-May-05

USA Depth Chart

RE: US all-time 5,000 and 10,000 meter list 11/7/2009 9:37AM - in reply to mcgato Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Thanks for that.

nepoks

RE: US all-time 5,000 and 10,000 meter list 11/7/2009 10:00AM - in reply to USA Depth Chart Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

5000m Men Overall All-Time

Rank Performance PB Name DOB Club Venue Date

Lagat 12:53

Solinsky 12:55

Solinsky 12:56

1 12:56.27 12:56.27 Dathan Ritzenhein 12.30.82 Nike Zurich, SWI 28-Aug-09

2 12:58.21 12:58.21 Bob Kennedy 08.18.70 Nike Zurich, SWI 14-Aug-96

Rupp 12:58

3 12:58.56 12:58.56 Matt Tegenkamp 01.19.82 Nike Brussels, BEL 4-Sep-09

4 12:59.22 12:59.22 Bernard Lagat 12.12.74 Nike London, ENG 28-Jul-06

5 13:01.15 13:01.15 Sydney Maree 09.09.56 Athletic Attic Oslo, NOR 27-Jul-85

Ben True 13:01

Hassan Mead 13:03?

Chris Derrick 13:08?

Others?

6 13:10.00 13:10.00 Adam Goucher 02.18.75 Nike Heusden, BEL 22-Jul-06

7 13:10.86 13:10.86 Alan Webb 01.13.83 Nike Berlin, GER 4-Sep-05

8 13:11.77 13:11.77 Mebrahtom Keflezighi 05.05.75 Nike Heusden, BEL 5-Aug-00

8 13:11.77 13:11.77 Tim Broe 06.20.77 adidas Oslo, NOR 29-Jul-05

10 13:11.93 13:11.93 Alberto Salazar 08.07.58 Athletics West Stockholm, SWE 6-Jul-82

10 13:11.93 13:11.93 Anthony Famiglietti 11.08.78 adidas Walnut, CA 13-Apr-07

12 13:12.24 13:12.24 Chris Solinsky 12.05.84 Nike Heusden, BEL 28-Jul-07

13 13:12.91 13:12.91 Matt Centrowitz 01.28.55 Athletics West Eugene, OR 5-Jun-82

14 13:13.32 13:13.32 Abdihakem Abdirahman 01.01.77 Nike London, ENG 22-Jul-05

15 13:13.49 13:13.49 Bruce Bickford 03.12.57 Oslo, NOR 27-Jun-85

16 13:14.80 13:14.80 Bill McChesney 01.08.59 Athletics West Zurich, SWI 18-Aug-82

17 13:15.06 13:15.06 Marty Liquori 09.11.49 Athletic Attic Dusseldorf, GER 4-Sep-77

18 13:15.16 13:15.16 Bolota Asmerom 10.12.78 Nike Heusden, BEL 28-Jul-07

19 13:15.33 13:15.33 Ian Dobson 02.06.82 adidas Carson, CA 24-Jun-05

20 13:15.44 13:15.44 Doug Padilla 10.04.56 Athletics West Helsinki, FIN 4-Jul-85

21 13:15.86 13:15.86 Jim Spivey 03.07.60 Asics Berlin, GER 30-Aug-94

22 13:16.02 13:16.02 Dan Browne 06.24.75 Nike Heusden, BEL 31-Jul-04

23 13:16.03 13:16.03 Ryan Hall 10.14.82 Asics Carson, CA 24-Jun-05

24 13:17.44 13:17.44 John Gregorek 04.15.60 Oslo, NOR 4-Jul-87

25 13:18.12 13:18.12 Galen Rupp 05.08.86 Nike Fayetteville, AR 13-Feb-09

26 13:18.19 13:18.19 Ralph King 04.01.56 Eugene, OR 5-Jun-82

27 13:18.46 13:18.46 Brent Vaughn 09.04.84 Nike Palo Alto, CA 4-May-08

28 13:18.50 13:18.50 Nicholas Rogers 05.02.75 Nike Heusden, BEL 5-Aug-00

29 13:18.54 13:18.54 Mark Nenow 11.16.57 Oslo, NOR 28-Jun-84

30 13:19.1 13:19.1 Craig Virgin 08.02.55 Front Runner Oslo, NOR 15-Jun-80

31 13:19.22 13:19.22 Rudy Chapa 11.07.57 Eugene, OR 7-Apr-79

32 13:19.37 13:19.37 Steve Plasencia 10.28.56 Oslo, NOR 27-Jul-85

33 13:19.4 13:19.4 Duncan MacDonald 01.15.49 Stockholm, SWE 10-Aug-76

34 13:19.50 13:19.50 Todd Williams 03.07.69 adidas Lausanne, SWI 5-Jul-95

35 13:19.60 13:19.60 Ryan Wilson 08.14.74 Eugene, OR 30-May-99

36 13:19.62 13:19.62 Paul Cummings 09.05.53 Eugene, OR 5-Jun-82

37 13:19.68 13:19.68 Ryan Kirkpatrick 09.10.78 WCAP Walnut, CA 13-Apr-07

38 13:19.73 13:19.73 Jim Hill 07.01.68 Oslo, NOR 28-Jun-83

39 13:19.92 13:19.92 Jonathan Riley 12.29.78 Nike Heusden, BEL 28-Jul-07

40 13:20.19 13:20.19 John Trautmann 06.29.68 Walnut, CA 17-Apr-92

41 13:20.35 13:20.35 Ed Moran 05.27.81 Nike Walnut, CA 13-Apr-07

42 13:20.43 13:20.43 Josh McDougal 06.01.85 Liberty University Walnut, CA 13-Apr-07

43 13:20.49 13:20.49 Joe Falcon 06.23.66 Eugene, OR 1-Jun-90

44 13:20.57 13:20.57 Jorge Torres 08.22.80 Nike Palo Alto, CA 29-May-05

45 13:21.60 13:21.60 Chris Fox 10.22.58 Oslo, NOR 28-Jun-83

46 13:21.87 13:21.87 Steve Prefontaine 01.25.51 Nike Helsinki, FIN 26-Jun-74

47 13:22.18 0:13:22 Evan Jager 03.08.89 Nike Eugene, OR 26-Jun-09

48 13:23.20 13:23.20 Dick Buerkle 09.03.47 Zurich, SWI 13-Aug-80

49 13:23.38 13:23.38 Paul Geis 02.23.53 Helsinki, FIN 26-Jun-74

50 13:23.50 13:23.50 Sean Graham 03.06.80 Heusden, BEL 28-Jul-07

51 13:23.57 13:23.57 Dan Henderson 06.26.58 Eugene, OR 1-Jun-85

52 13:23.60 13:23.60 Matt Giusto 10.25.66 Eugene, OR 19-Jun-93

53 13:23.72 13:23.72 Mark Coogan 05.01.66 Sacramento, CA 16-Jun-95

54 13:24.55 13:24.55 Greg Whiteley 01.06.67 Eugene, OR 5-Jun-93

55 13:24.78 13:24.78 Ruben Reina 11.16.67 Oslo, NOR 6-Jul-91

56 13:25.19 13:25.19 Louis Luchini 05.24.81 Stanford University Walnut, CA 16-Apr-04

57 13:25.38 13:25.38 Matthew Lane 05.09.77 Palo Alto, CA 4-May-01

58 13:25.46 13:25.46 German Fernandez 11.02.90 Oklahoma State Uni. Eugene, OR 26-Jun-09

59 13:25:53 13:25:53 Josh Rohatinsky 03.07.82 Nike Walnut, CA 13-Apr-07

60 13:25.61 13:25.61 Bill Krohn 03.09.58 Oslo, NOR 27-Jul-85

61 13:25.66 13:25.66 Robert Curtis 11.28.84 Reebok Heusden, BEL 20-Jun-08

62 13:25.70 13:25.70 Aaron Ramirez 07.29.64 Lausanne, SWI 10-Jul-91

63 13:25.75 13:25.75 Gerard Donakowski 02.20.60 Dedham, MA 7-Jun-86

63 13:25.75 13:25.75 Alan Culpepper 09.15.72 adidas London, ENG 22-Jul-05

65 13:26.34 13:26.34 Thom Hunt 03.17.58 London, ENG 3-Jun-81

66 13:26.62 13:26.62 Frank Shorter 10.31.47 Florida Track Club Zurich, SWI 24-Aug-77

67 13:26.65 13:26.65 Radwan Koborsi 10.04.83 Reebok Heusden, BEL 22-Jul-06

68 13:26.79 13:26.79 Vince Draddy 04.19.61 Eugene, OR 1-Jun-85

69 13:26.81 13:26.81 Brian Baker 06.08.70 New Balance Hechtel, BEL 6-Jul-96

70 13:27.05 13:27.05 Marc Davis 12.17.69 Nike Walnut, CA 14-Apr-00

71 13:27.17 13:27.17 Sean Quigley 09.03.82 PUMA Walnut, CA 17-Apr-09

72 13:27.31 13:27.31 Brad Hauser 03.28.77 Nike Sacramento, CA 21-Jul-00

73 13:27.41 13:27.41 Don Clary 07.29.57 Eugene, OR 7-Jun-86

74 13:27.45 13:27.45 Thomas Morgan 05.10.81 ZAP Fitness Heusden, BEL 20-Jul-08

75 13:27.52 13:27.52 Clint Wells 05.02.75 Nike Walnut, CA 19-Apr-02

76 13:27.72 13:27.72 Steve Lacy 01.17.56 Los Angeles, CA 24-Jun-84

77 13:27.79 13:27.79 Brandon Bethke 01.19.87 Wisconsin Walnut, CA 17-Apr-09

78 13:28.00 13:28.00 Terry Brahm 11.21.62 Eugene, OR 1-Jun-90

79 13:28.29 13:28.29 Andre Williams 10.11.71 Reebok Palo Alto, CA 5-May-00

80 13:28.41 13:28.41 Dan Nelson 05.15.64 Eugene, OR 5-Jun-93

81 13:28.45 13:28.45 Hassan Mead 08.28.89 Univ. of Minnesota Palo Alto, CA 2-May-09

82 13:28.99 13:28.99 Ray Appenheimer 10.18.72 Palo Alto, CA 5-May-00

83 13:29.25 13:29.25 Ronnie Harris 05.16.65 Hechtel, BEL 6-Jul-96

84 13:29.4 13:29.4 George Young 07.24.37 Eugene, OR 9-Jul-72

Ben L Wrong wrote:

83-José Uribe (MEX): 2:08:55

Is this the same Jose Uribe that ran for Boise State?

Pick It Up wrote:

I'm just tired of it being the same 3 or 4 American's that can go sub 2:10: Ritz, Meb, Hall, Abdi. And I don't know if Hall and Abdi have anymore sub 2:10 performances in them. These guys all went sub 2:10 at the Houston trials and there has not been even one new guy making a breakthough and going sub 2:10 since then. Certainly there has to be someone coming along for the next olympic trials capable of this??

Tired of the same 3 or 4 American's what that can go sub 2:10?

All the talent is going to Tough Mudders

1. Top US runners are still going to the track first because that is what they did in college. Rupp is easily a sub 2:10 guy, but he is spending 7-8 years on the track before hitting the marathon. True, Derrick, Jager, Bumbi, Hill, Leer, and Lomong are all on the track. All of them have track times that show sub 2:10 potential. Ryan Vail was on the heels of these guys on the track and has run 2:10.

2. US runners do not need to break 2:10. There is no big incentive to break 2:10. 2:15 is the Olympic A standard for the trials and for Rio. Odds are that running @2:10 will get you a spot on the team. Running 2:09 or 2:08 will not get you any closer to a podium in a major marathon in the US.

3. US runners do not run the right races. The best way to get a runner to break 2:10 is to put him in a race where 2:09 gets you a win. In major marathons, US runners are just doing time trials and have to watch the E. Africans throw down surges that leave them in the dust. Eggleston was on the podium in the Gold Coast marathon with a 2:10 and was in the hunt most of the way. Nothing brings out the best in a runner like the chance to win.

4. Top training groups are too small, too isolated and too exclusive. If you look at the big training runs for E. Africans, you will see at least 10-20 guys doing workouts/long runs together. Many times it is 50-100. These workouts take on a race atmosphere. Younger runners push themselves harder. Top guys dare not slack off and get beat. In the US, lots of guys do workouts chasing a bicycle or just by themselves. And a lot of very talented US runners are barely surviving with zero support in their training because they are not in a top training group. If Nike had two dozen fully sponsored marathon elites training together with all the benefits of the Portland facilities, you would have more sub 2:10 guys.

Judging from a previous thread here, I wonder whether U.S. marathoners run tempo runs too conservatively, not daring to run half marathon pace, and hence, not getting that toughness. Or like Hansons, they might not be willing to do the over 20 mile runs. That's just speculation, but the serious question is whether there are any common lacks in the training top Americans do that might keep them from running commensurate times in the marathon to their 5000/10000/half marathon times. Plenty of 1:01/1:02, not a lot of sub 2:10s.

Well if they had kept the orginal distance of 24 miles we would have a few more runners under 2:10 even a couple sub two hour guys.

We have guys that have the speed but die after 35k. I don't know the answer but maybe we should team up with the Japanese and figure it out.

Ben L Wrong wrote:

So the question also would be: ¿Why only the East Africans run sub 2:08?

Here's the "no east African" 2014 Marathon Rank:

62-Kohei Matsumura (JPN): 2:08:09

70-Mohamed Farah (GBR): 2:08:21 (if you don't consider him an East African)

81-Koshi Kobayashi (JPN): 2:08:51

83-José Uribe (MEX): 2:08:55

83-Henryk Szost (POL): 2:08:55

91-Hiro Kurosaki (JPN): 2:09:07

94-Masanori Sakai (JPN): 2:09:10

105-Sue Ishikawa (JPN): 2:09:29

107-Masato Imai (JPN): 2:09:30

113-Yuki Kawauchi (JPN): 2:09:36

117-Satoru Sasaki (JPN): 2:09:47

122-Vitaliy Shafar (UKR): 2:09:53

So, 127 athletes lowered 2:10 this year, and 115 of them are East African (116 if you count Farah)

I know, years ago there was some Japanese sub 2:08 runners (like Fujiwara), Szost also ran 2:07, in recent years you also had Rothlin in the mix, plus Ryan Hall. But it's the exception.

If you're excluding Meb then you have to exclude Farah. Look where Somalia is on a map.

The biggest issue is support. You have to be fast as hell to get any money for running in the US. If we started treating runners like athletes and giving money all the way back to 2:30s (maybe a couple k a year), you'd see a lot more sub 2:10 guys, as runners would improve to move to the next tier. Now the gap between supported and getting nothing is tiny. A 2:15 marathoner might not even get a shoe contract.

Americans think 5 min/mile is fast. Kenyans think 3 min/km is fast.

I think both are fast

Tempo runs, yes! I remember K. Khannouchi saying that he ran his tempo's so long and hard, that he feared them days in advance, and got as nervous as before a race. Then again his career was maybe a little shortened, but he had 5 solid years of winning races, and 10th year after his first marathon he ran 2:07 after long recovery from injury. One could argue he had bad bone placement in his foot and was doomed regardless of training methodology.

Rosa Mota also ran hard tempo runs, and generally no run ever longer than 90 mins in training even though running 2:23 pb. Rob de Castella ran with her once, and said never again, too hard!

I remember seeing Ryan Hall running tempo runs at a really lame pace, and running long intervals with some triathlete who was way behind after 400m wtf? Was that just to boost his ego?

KK ran alone, but as we know the East Africans run in large groups, hammer hard, and sleep all day.

know-it-all joe wrote:

They need EPO.

EPO benefits the marathon a lot less than the 5k/10k/half. Perhaps not at all. Mo Trafeh and his 60:39 / 2:11 is your classic example.[/quote]

Mo Farah.

When there's almost non-existant oversight of doping in a country, then athletes can train their hearts-out (pun intended...hence having a cardiologist around, like Rosa, is helpful):

"EPO granted the ability to suffer more; to push yourself farther and harder than you’d ever imagined, in both training and racing. It rewarded precisely what I was good at: having a great work ethic, pushing myself to the limit and past it. I felt almost giddy: this was a new landscape. I began to see races differently. They weren’t rolls of the genetic dice, or who happened to be on form that day. They didn’t depend on who you were. They depended on what you did—how hard you worked, how attentive and professional you were in your preparation."

- I took this from:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/09/09/man-and-superman

Stop thinking that there's some other crazy reason like doing different interval training, longer tempos, run-walking, or not following the latest Runner's World marathon plan.

5. Americans are still stuck in a 1970s training mentality when it comes to marathon training. They aren't training the same way that the Kenyans are, particularly when it comes to workouts.

Here's a corollary question . Why isn't the Olympic marathon record much lower? Those who can train cycles while doping with no risk of testing/exposure can get gains that have a long lasting effect after discontinued use. Move the Jamaicans to the USA for four years and see how many podium at the Olympics in sprints. Corruption in anti-doping/sports authorities in certain countries are an advantage.Really, how can you be a (successful) road racer in North America and not get tested. Ask everyone under 2:08 who is not racing track how many times they have been tested out of competition in their home country. Ask American men who are over 2:10 if they have been tested out of competition.

Pikermi x2 wrote:

Henryk Szost (Poland)...A decent runner with a 28:32 10,000 PB, and a 1:02:35 half PB, runs a 2:08 marathon this year (and has a 2:07:39 PB from 2012)!

One would think that guys like Curtis, Vail, and Pennel, with much better 10k to half times would at least be able to get close. Instead, there's a 3 to 6 minute difference. What besides a shift in mindset is needed to see some of these guys run 2:07s (or better) as well?

These types of posts are exactly what irk me about message boarding. Less Americans are running sub 2:10s than East Africans so the natural conclusion is to blame the mindsets of the Americans who are closest to achieving these feats? By that logic, all the 2:20 or 2:30 marathoners have even more significant mindset errors that need to be fixed.

The reality is, there's a smaller talent pool in North America because less people pursue marathoning seriously. With a smaller talent pool you naturally have less people with the proper combination of drive and talent to hit those marks. I'm not saying everything every elite American has done is perfect, but as a general rule they're where they're at, at least in part, because they're more driven and smarter about training than the rest of us.The fact that Americans haven't met your expectations is unfortunate, but more symptomatic of a slimmer talent pool than anything wrong with the top Americans as individuals.

Meb the Man wrote:

Ever heard of Meb?

Boston?

Sub 2:10?

Winner?

Mebrahtom Keflezighi is as foreign as they come. He is not an Real American.