john9090 wrote:
28years old been running for 12years 130lbs 5 ft 10 2% body fat. Perfect build.
Tuesday thursday do 50min farklets of 90% efforts min on min off. Or 10mile tempos at 4min k pace.
PRs
21km 1.23
3km 10.32
1km 2.52
John, You just suck! From a compassionate point of view. You are 99 % slow twitch fibers and have no speed in your body. Hey, at least you are in super good shape and have a nice cardiovascular system! You a not the next Galen Rupp but who is??
John - I'm not sure if you're serious or pulling everyone's leg. 100 miles a week and should DEFINITELY NOT be running almost 19min 5ks. Post your last 16 weeks of training by mileage for us to review. Also, what pace are you running your training runs??
I would advise a few things.
1) Start doing mileage at a faster pace. Long slow distance produces long slow runners. I'm sure there are a few folks who disagree, but I can counter with plenty of coaches and athletes who don't dick around with training runs, if necessary.
2) Consider reducing your mileage to 60-70 miles a week in order to accomplish point 1. You might be attempting 100 mpw when in reality you're not ready. You are just out there slugging along and it's doing nothing for you. Start with quality over quantity then work up to the quantity. Sounds like you are producing a lot of junk miles.
3) Start lifting weights and doing core. Two extremely underrated activities in distance running. As a fairly decent NCAA DI runner, I can tell you that most people suck at running and don't progress beyond a certain point because they believe it's all about running. THIS IS FALSE! Drills, plyos, core, weight lifting - DO THEM!!!!!!
That's enough for now. Hopefully, you can incorporate some of these small tidbits into your program.
The overexplainer wrote:
[quote]hot.. cold.. wrote:
Talent plays a huge roll I can normally get back into 15-16 min shape for 5ks with some decent training and only 40mpw. I know guys much more talented than myself who can start back and run that fast almost immediately. I have run a few 5ks out of shape and can normally drop a 18:00 off of hardly any running. The point is I enjoy training b/c I like to set PRs and base everything off my own PRs not other runners times. Also if you're running that much you should take up longer distance races. If you are after 5k prs drop the mileage and focus on more track workouts.
Maybe there is a bakery near him where he could buy this huge roll?[/quote
Haha spelling natzi watch out...
If you are a healthy, relatively normal, motivated male between the ages of 18 and 25, this is indeed strange. 100 miles a week is huge! If you had the motivation to do that, surely you grew up relatively active, participating in sports, and when you found your way to the sport of distance running, you dabbled in speed (track repeats and mile trials). What's your mile speed? If you can run below 5:20/5:15 mile without crazy specific training but best effort, then you should be able to attain your 5k goal. 100 miles a week is dubious. What about tempo runs? It might be a case, too, of race performance. Try harder? Maybe the course was too tough and you didn't pace yourself correctly? 5k at max effort is going to hurt, especially from 1.5/2 miles to the end.
It's interesting how mileage and tempo runs and the like, have, as of late,
dominated the training conversation. Sometimes repeat work, with plenty of rest has a place too. The problem you have is that your muscles are just not used to going at that faster 5k pace. The only way to solve that is with interval training and faster repeats. The two types of workouts have to leverage off of each other.
And you have to start with the repeat work. You will find that your muscles will go into shock after the first repeat. You will have to take a longer rest than you imagine. But interestingly enough, once your legs settle down, you will find that you need less and less rest, thus being able to transition the very same workout into interval work. I would do interval workouts where the early rest periods were longer as a transition period. Don't worry, you will soon be able to move to doing everything with the same short rest.
This is the tried and tested method how most High Schoolers are developed. You just missed it. That's all.
ive been running 100-miles a week for the past 8years!
mabey thats my downfall i simply love running to much where its having a negative effect on me.
every tuesday and thursday i do 60min runs with 1 minute and 2 minutes efforts thrown in every now and then at 85% to 95%.
then do a tempo on Saturday up to 15kms
mabey im just one of thoes guys thats not born to run fast simple!
john9090 wrote:
ive been running 100-miles a week for the past 8years!
mabey thats my downfall i simply love running to much where its having a negative effect on me.
every tuesday and thursday i do 60min runs with 1 minute and 2 minutes efforts thrown in every now and then at 85% to 95%.
then do a tempo on Saturday up to 15kms
mabey im just one of thoes guys thats not born to run fast simple!
I think you are full of $hit. 100M weeks for 8 yrs and still that slow. BS
john9090 wrote:
ive been running 100-miles a week for the past 8years!
mabey thats my downfall i simply love running to much where its having a negative effect on me.
every tuesday and thursday i do 60min runs with 1 minute and 2 minutes efforts thrown in every now and then at 85% to 95%.
then do a tempo on Saturday up to 15kms
mabey im just one of thoes guys thats not born to run fast simple!
I think you are full of $hit. 100M weeks for 8 yrs and still that slow. BS
john9090 wrote:
ive been running 100-miles a week for the past 8years!
mabey thats my downfall i simply love running to much where its having a negative effect on me.
every tuesday and thursday i do 60min runs with 1 minute and 2 minutes efforts thrown in every now and then at 85% to 95%.
then do a tempo on Saturday up to 15kms
mabey im just one of thoes guys thats not born to run fast simple!
no, you're not training right if you want to do 5ks. Replace the fartleks with workouts at 5k pace and you'll break 18 in no time.
If you've been doing 100 mpw for 8 years, you should definitely do the marathon. You'd probably break 2:50. I'd at the very least try it out and see what happens
We all know you will never be "fast" but that is different from running 17:5X or even 17:2X.
DaveF wrote:
In my mind any man who is not over weight, is 35 years or younger and has no health issues has the potential to run 15 high to 16 low for 5km.....I really do believe that. Now it takes some sound training but it can be done.
I'll give a little background on myself and running just mileage, it might help the OP, everyone else wouldn't really need to follow along
I started running rather late, 22, and grew up playing hockey and did so in University, after that I had no sport to play at a high level and started to jog as part of my workout routine. I soon started enjoying running more then lifting weights and entered a local 5km. I ran 20:30 at 6'1" 195 lb's. I got beat by a ton of girls and was embarrassed but had some fun.
I decided to buy a garmin and started running every day. I lost all of my muscle mass and whatever fatty tissue I had and 5 months later I was running 16:30 for 5km, weighing 145lb's. I did no workouts but just ran volume because I loved it. I was running 85 miles/week consistently with a long run in there.
4 years later running is one of my passions, I'm not a true Elite (I have a full time job that's most important) but I'm decent, sponsored by saucony and running 14's for 5km on the track, 31 flat for 10km on the roads. The plan is to get under 30 for 10km next spring then start improving my strength and moving up to the half and eventually the marathon.
Miles are important but not everything. I run 130/week in my base phase with a tempo run and some long intervals like 2 mile repeats each week, during the racing season I'm much lower but doing 3 sessions a week.
For instance last week I did,
Q1 - 8X400m in 65 seconds off 60 seconds recovery then 8X1minute hills,
Q2 - 2X20 minutes at half Marathon pace (5:12/mile)
Q3 - 5X2km off 400m jog starting at 6:10 and working down to 5:50.
What I'm trying to point out is that if your new, volume alone can get you better, but a faster way to develop is a structured plan of attack with workouts tailored to your goal race.
Don't think you will be stuck at 18:30 forever, I'm sure you can eventually get to running 15-16minutes for 5km.
How the hell are you sponsored by Saucony if you only run 14:xx 5ks and 68:00 half marathons?
DaveF wrote:
In my mind any man who is not over weight, is 35 years or younger and has no health issues has the potential to run 15 high to 16 low for 5km.....I really do believe that. Now it takes some sound training but it can be done.
This is just plain wrong. It's always the people that CAN do this that think it's so easy. And they usually think it's due to their "hard work" and not any genetic talent.
What you're missing is that the vast majority of people, no matter how good of shape they are in, are never going to break 6:00 for the mile. Run three of them back to back (or faster?) -- even less of a chance. Accept that you have talent, and many others here do, too. But there are plenty of people out there who can run forever and never break 75 seconds for a 400. Etc...
Ok im going to give this a try how does this sound.?
Today 30 mins with 5x150m strides at 90-95%
Tomorrow 15min warm up. 8x400s fast. 15min warm down
Friday- easy 45mins
Saturday- 20min warm up. 5x1km reps fast around 3.30. 3.35 pace 20min cool down
Afternoon easy 30mins
Sunday easy 90mins
john9090 wrote:
Ok im going to give this a try how does this sound.?
Today 30 mins with 5x150m strides at 90-95%
Tomorrow 15min warm up. 8x400s fast. 15min warm down
Friday- easy 45mins
Saturday- 20min warm up. 5x1km reps fast around 3.30. 3.35 pace 20min cool down
Afternoon easy 30mins
Sunday easy 90mins
yay! he's taking our advice!
and I'd say aim for 84-85 on the 400s cuz of your sub 18 goal, just limit the recovery to say 200m slow jogging(Galen Rupp has a 1258 5k and does 400m recovery jogs in 2:30 so no need to show off on the recovery jog).
On the 1kms I'd say 400m slow recovery jog. 3:36 1km is exactly 18 flat pace, so try to hit your 1ks in 3:36 or faster. If you hit like 3:40 just say "I'm not in sub 18 shape yet, but soon I will be then I can hit 3:36."
Thanka. What would reduce milage do for me? If I cut down to 50miles a week.
If the guy is really doing 100 miles a week, any kind of sharpening will work. The worst part of LR is specific advice taken from the Daniels book to make the poster feel smart. "Do some type of speed" should have been better worded - he needs to get out of slogging around all the time. Little things like 15 second pickups (or strides afterwards, it really doesn't matter) will develop speed over time without blowing him out.
He can't break 18:30 because he doesn't have speed! Yes it can be developed with VO2 Max workouts, but watch out.
The reason I used a "buildup" to 20*200 w/200 jog at mile pace is that workout, if really done at mile pace, in my experience is less tasking than cranking 400-1 mile repeats. Just my experience.
So really I shouldnt be going out there and do alot of volume to start off with.
I have a great base. I think im a very strong and fit runner. Im just not fast. Plain and simple.
If I start of with cutting milage to say 50-60miles a week
And after every easy run do 5x100 strides, I should feel fresher and better?
Say tomorrow try 6x400s to start with?
Friday easy 45mins
Saturday 3x1km reps around 3.30 followed by 5x200s?
Would that be better to start with?
You are really a troll.
But let's answer this question for education purposes.
Yes, reduce mileage. To 60 miles/week is low enough.
Do 5x100 strides. Not after every easy run. First do 3x100, 4 runs later do 4x100, 3 runs later do 5x100, 2 runs later do 5x100 en keep doing that that way. Every second easy run you do strides afterwards.
6x400 at 5k race pace would be to start with.
3x1km reps should be slower than 5k race pace for now.
quality not quantity my friend
no worry's thanks for the replys.
yes i must admit i have hardly done any speed work in all of those years. between the ages of 17 to 21 i did but got injured badly, then once i got back into it, i never done hardly it again,due to injury concerns. and also being mentally weak!
truth hurts i know!
but tomorrow is a new day i will take on the 400s tomorrow and will see what happens!