Runner in college knocks up girlfriend. What would you do?

Blackballed from my Frat wrote:

Ho Hum wrote:

Do you guys understand that I (and most other pro-choice people) don't consider a fetus to be a kid? I don't think you should kill a kid with acne or all the kids in Africa because those are conscious human beings. I do think you should be able to abort a fetus BEFORE it becomes a kid.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-does-consciousness-arise/

So your definition of life is consciousness, even in a scenario where being unconscious is only temporary?

Yeah dumba$s. Every egg cell in a woman's body is potentially only "temporarily" unconscious. Get a grip.

You are so unequivocally wrong on every point that I feel like it's almost immature of me to respond to this. I'm not going to go through every fallacy you've presented because I don't have all day but let me leave it at this... You try and spew nonsense about "science" hurting the abortion argument yet you are undoubtedly a Christian (or whatever religion you choose) who inherently is purposefully oblivious to all scientific evidence. Don't pick and choose when to accept science because you are scientifically illiterate. Just stick to magic and witchcraft.

AnScientist wrote:

Not only this, but the growing field of epigenetics shows us that the fetus also controls the blood pressure and sugar levels of the mother, meaning that the fetus actually has more control of its own life prior to being born. It is far from a passive lump of cells. Just an interesting aside.

By that point, you can't abort the fetus anyway. It is way too far along. A fetus is normally aborted before 14 weeks - way before it's anything more than a mindless mass of cells.

Blackballed from my Frat wrote:

Ho Hum wrote:

Do you guys understand that I (and most other pro-choice people) don't consider a fetus to be a kid? I don't think you should kill a kid with acne or all the kids in Africa because those are conscious human beings. I do think you should be able to abort a fetus BEFORE it becomes a kid.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-does-consciousness-arise/

So your definition of life is consciousness, even in a scenario where being unconscious is only temporary?

You should read some Nagel. He has some good thoughts on why oblivion before a person has consciousness isn't a bad thing but oblivion after death is a bad thing.

Basically Nagel says that death (in most cases) is bad because a person loses all of the things that are important to them even if they can't experience the lose of them because they are dead. Because nothing is important to a person who hasn't been born their oblivion isn't costing them anything.

Idontevenknow wrote:

Blackballed from my Frat wrote:

So your definition of life is consciousness, even in a scenario where being unconscious is only temporary?

Yeah dumba$s. Every egg cell in a woman's body is potentially only "temporarily" unconscious. Get a grip.

Last I checked, he wasn't the one crazily throwing out insults because he disagrees with other's views...Perhaps it is YOU who needs to get a grip

1/10

I can't recall any big time college male runner getting a girl knocked up or a female college runner getting knocked up.

Why should men even have a say in the debate? It's a debate over what women can do with their bodies, and it's women who have the strongest feelings in the matter. Clearly the biggest issue in the argument is when a child is finally considered human. When it comes out of the mother's womb, or after conception. We all go through many stages of development we can agree on: infancy, adolescence, puberty, young adulthood, adulthood, becoming elderly, etc. During all of those stages, we are considered fully human, despite the fact we continue to develop and grow at a consistent rate, as well as begin to consistently decline later in life. But growth doesn't start at infancy. So what makes an infant more human than a fetus? A fetus that is growing at a fast rate, with human dna (that is different from the mother's, therefore not her own body), and very soon develops common human characteristics?

Is an adult more human than a toddler? After all, the adult is fully developed, the toddler is still a jumble of cells that are growing. A toddler is completely dependent on the mother for food and shelter, and shares much of her dna (but not all). No, of course not.

Similarly, an infant is no more human than a fetus, because humanity isn't based on whether or not you are in your mother's womb, it is based on your genetic composition, characteristics, and life inside you.

"What about rape?" Look at the statistics of abortions, and how many times that is the reason, not just the mom and dad's negligence. Adoption is a wonderful alternative, and even more wonderful is taking responsibility for your own actions. Condoms and birth control are not that expensive. If you are raped, you have my sympathy, and in those extreme circumstances, you have a right to that decision. But few will make that decision, and many are blessed with wonderful children who are unfortunately the products of rape. Beauty from the ashes.

Also, read all the anecdotes of regret by mother's who've had an abortion. You'd have to be heartless or completely blinded by narcissism to be able to have one and not feel guilty or remorseful in the slightest.

Lastly, while many view this as invalidating my argument, you can get off your high horse with your nose in the air and chest puffed out, and not judge my intelligence and views on this based on my faith. I'm Christian, and believe children are a gift from God, and that life is a miracle. To take a life is not a light matter, and abortion is murder of an innocent child whose life God may have great plans for.

And again, I'm not a woman, and am only speaking because of the many men on here speaking, but it should not be a man's debate. We'll never understand what it is like to go through pregnancy or give birth, so who are we to understand a subject such as this? If you get your girlfriend pregnant, man up and take responsibility, and don't force her or guilt her into getting an abortion because you couldn't wear a condom and pull out.

HonestThief wrote:

Also, read all the anecdotes of regret by mother's who've had an abortion. You'd have to be heartless or completely blinded by narcissism to be able to have one and not feel guilty or remorseful in the slightest.

This isn't a topic I often weigh in on, but I do wonder to what extent those "anecdotes of regret" are due to being called a murderer by religious organizations.

MR E wrote:

HonestThief wrote:

Also, read all the anecdotes of regret by mother's who've had an abortion. You'd have to be heartless or completely blinded by narcissism to be able to have one and not feel guilty or remorseful in the slightest.

This isn't a topic I often weigh in on, but I do wonder to what extent those "anecdotes of regret" are due to being called a murderer by religious organizations.

Probably some, and I don't advocate any hate towards people who choose to have one. However, I still believe it to be wrong, and to be murder. I'm not going to mitigate the truth, which is, if a fetus is a human life, taking its life is murder.

If you've had an abortion, I believe it was a mistake, and that it was murder, BUT I don't condemn you because of it, or hate you in any way. I forgive you right this second, without a second thought. But I do pray you recognize that it was a wrong decision, and go about showing others and preventing them from making the same mistakes. Children are a blessing, best when they are planned, but even when they are "accidents" they are a miracle worth preserving.

HonestThief wrote:

If you've had an abortion, I believe it was a mistake, and that it was murder, BUT I don't condemn you because of it, or hate you in any way. I forgive you right this second, without a second thought. But I do pray you recognize that it was a wrong decision, and go about showing others and preventing them from making the same mistakes. Children are a blessing, best when they are planned, but even when they are "accidents" they are a miracle worth preserving.

So when a pregnancy aborts itself because of a genetic disorder, do you consider that suicide? Is apoptosis self-mutilation? Help me understand please.

Letsrun has made me a believer in post-natal abortion.

Go look up Brent and Sara Vaughn. He got her pregnant while in college and they still had All-American and elite careers.

Also, just learn to use a rubber all the time.

Idontevenknow wrote:

HonestThief wrote:

If you've had an abortion, I believe it was a mistake, and that it was murder, BUT I don't condemn you because of it, or hate you in any way. I forgive you right this second, without a second thought. But I do pray you recognize that it was a wrong decision, and go about showing others and preventing them from making the same mistakes. Children are a blessing, best when they are planned, but even when they are "accidents" they are a miracle worth preserving.

So when a pregnancy aborts itself because of a genetic disorder, do you consider that suicide? Is apoptosis self-mutilation? Help me understand please.

While you're failing to see the point and accept it, Sure, why not? Perhaps some fetuses commit suicide. It would be a very human thing to do, only reinforcing the point.

Now, back to the serious conversation here, you can stop sidetracking us with dumb comments such as that and offer a counterargument to how and infant is just as human as an adult, yet a fetus is less human than an infant, while both are dependent on the mother, are a mass of growing cells, and made up of human dna.

HonestThief wrote:

[quote]MR E wrote:

[quote]HonestThief wrote:

If you've had an abortion, I believe it was a mistake, and that it was murder, BUT I don't condemn you because of it, or hate you in any way. I forgive you right this second, without a second thought. But I do pray you recognize that it was a wrong decision, and go about showing others and preventing them from making the same mistakes. Children are a blessing, best when they are planned, but even when they are "accidents" they are a miracle worth preserving.

Are you God? Who the hell is asking for your forgiveness? It takes some kind of arrogance to grant forgiveness to people you have connection to whatsoever. I get not judging, but forgiving? For what, what did they do to you?

Not sure how this got into abortion talk.

I can say that if you get a woman pregnant, and you want nothing to do with your child, you are a sick person who deserves scorn.

What kind of father could ignore his creation?

I am not saying you should get married, but to not do everything to help, support, and be in that child's life makes you lower than low.

Cry

HonestThief wrote:

While you're failing to see the point and accept it, Sure, why not? Perhaps some fetuses commit suicide. It would be a very human thing to do, only reinforcing the point.

Now, back to the serious conversation here, you can stop sidetracking us with dumb comments such as that and offer a counterargument to how and infant is just as human as an adult, yet a fetus is less human than an infant, while both are dependent on the mother, are a mass of growing cells, and made up of human dna.

Reasons why a new fetus is not a Human:

1. It does not have a functioning brain or nervous system.

2. It is nothing even remotely similar to a human in appearance or function.

Your skin is also made of Human DNA yet no once cares that the cells are dying every second.

"a mass of growing cells"

Thank you for proving that you know nothing about biology or anatomy. Cells do not grow.

Bump