Do you think HS runners are on PEDs?

I knew some football guys in HS who were on steroids, but they were just horse-pills they got from meatheads at the gym. Runners actually need someone who knows what he is doing to "properly" dope.

There are maybe a few isolated cases of parents in-the-know who take their kid to a doctor amenable to prescribing stuff like hGH to short/skinny kids, or maybe some high schoolers who take random steroids given to them by football guys, but I doubt there is any widespread EPO use or systematic doping conspiracy at the HS level.

Tosh wrote:

Thoughts?

I talked to a recent graduate who said something along the lines that "compared to the past people are now running faster sooner" which has some merit to it.

I think back to HS track and cross country and appreciate the fact that you form a team with the kids you grew up around. A same class acquaintance's brother or sister, upperclassmen and underclassmen and that kid who you grew up down the street from but never really struck a common ground. Before you know it a 5-6 kid grab bag running consistently in the off-season can run under 16:40 for 5k. That's the beauty of it and you go out and represent your city, area of simply high school. When you form a good nucleus, have good leadership and have a go at it for a couple summers and winters it's really fun and engaging. And the focus for the hs elites is getting into a good college. Oregon, Stanford, Colorado, etc. I think there's something to be said for the majority of high schoolers having a large support group behind them. If not a bus of 80 kids standing behind their #1, it's the local news coverage, the teachers and parents knowing you as "that runner [guy or girl]". It's the horns that honk at you on training runs in the off-season. High school can be a very happy time with so much going on. Homecoming, soccer and football games, the band, etc.

When you move off to college it's not only a step up in training. It's also a step up in academic demand and responsibility. Once you get secured into a good school it can be a huge weight off your shoulders. You no longer have to worry about getting INTO the school. Unlike high school running college running is not just an extracurricular with your hometown grab bag. It's a chosen lifestyle and at most schools everyone there was somewhat of a standout which can take away from your drive. After all, you don't have to be there (you were already admitted). You don't have to perform (there's no next level to anticipate for 99.9% of the population). The field is much greater and filled with foreign stars. Between it all you also have to find an adequate balance of academics, athletics and being social so you don't get awkward. Sometimes people can't hang with the upped mileage. Sometimes salaries and potential romantic partners can take over your interest. College is definitely a different ball game.

Over diagnosis of Asthma --> oral steroid for every rail thin white kid who is out of breath after a run.

The only ones on peds are the ones faster than some of the idiots who post on letsrun.

Yeah, there are some kids using. When it comes to runners it's likely mostly the sprinters IMO. Steroids are easy to come by and will help potentially in the 400M and shorter, but if distance kids are using steroids they are likely putting on too much mass and not getting a performance increase UNLESS it motivates them to take training seriously.

The things that really work for distance runners, such as EPO, are a little scarier for most to use and therefore I'd guess not very many kids are using. As the saying goes, you can usually spot a donkey among the thoroughbreds and the top boys and girls MOSTLY run like thoroughbreds.

I'd hate to get lost and have to ask You for directions .

Here's my n=1 experience:

Most elite HS runners are clean. Yes, some may take caffeine or maybe beta-alanine before a race, but that's legal.

Any massive improvement is always suspicious unless there's a reason for it. I can think of a few people I know who had this: what all but one had in common was they either grew 4+ inches, lost 30+ pounds, or increased mileage significantly. However, one person on my team was much more suspicious.

He went from running good but not great times as a sophomore, off of (IIRC) about 40 mpw (4:4x and 10:0x), to running low 4:1x and 9:0x as a junior while only running 50 mpw. That's not really suspicious, but he had a completely average XC season until one week where he ran a 1+ minute PR and never looked back. This was only suspicious since he had struggled to run 800s at his previous race pace, but then he began running 4-5 mile tempos at his same race pace. He also wouldn't let anyone touch his backpack after these huge gains while before he'd often forget something and ask that someone pass it over.

Why wouldn't they be doping if their heroes are?

In high school running, Adderall and albuterol inhalers are super prevalent. It is not uncommon to see kids take multiple puffs off of an inhaler and slam an energy drink within 30 minutes of a race start.

I most certainly think there are high school runners using PEDs. You'd be crazy not to just given the size of the population and the prevalence of PEDs in athletics.

I don't think that the top runners are necessarily on PEDs. I think the times posted by top HS runners are achievable without PEDs. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are, but I have no idea how prevalent it is.

I doubt that HS runners are really using PEDs that effectively, but who knows. There is a lot of information on PED use available.

So you are saying Kessler was doping because Nick Willis was too? Good to know.

Some of them are,especially in sprints,and field events.

Its definitely existed in the past. There was an epidemic of steroid users in the short sprints in the early 2000s. Rubin Williams strikes me as someone with suspicious progress at best - 49 low as a junior to 20.8 and 10.3 as a senior. The guy he lost to at states was even worse - forgot his name but he had enough muscle to move a car his senior year, and did absolutely nothing in college.

Also Calvin and Alvin Harrison were known to be doping in high school. Calvin actually got banned for it at nationals that year.

Anyway, it definitely exists these days too. People are getting faster and tech, especially doping tech and knowledge/know-how has gotten much more advanced. If I had to guess which events are doping, probably a few people who run 10.4-5 or 9:0x with an unexpected amount of improvement.

However, I do think high school doping is rare/near nonexistent. For the sake of the conversation, I'm not counting stuff like huffing Albuterol and energy drinks before races.

Why wouldn't some HS kids use PEDs when they are easily available?

How prevalent depends on how desperate they are.

Anabolic steroids are hard to get & are listed as a controlled substance - so someone could get busted for possession. SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators) are used by many bodybuilders & strength/sprint athletes & can be ordered online from pharma companies as these substances are currently in the clinical trials. DHEA (dehydroepiandrostone - a precursor to testosterone) is available as a dietary supplement in the U.S. sold at health food & grocery stores.

Desperation to improve can cause some HS kids to cut corners. And they have unlimited access to the internet - something that wasn't around back in my HS days.

Steroids being illegal makes them about as hard to get as weed. Every decent gym has some meathead dealer. Same thing with hgh and test. EPO? No clue.

I always wondered how many HS get altitude tents. Not clear if they work but they are cheap enough for upper middle class parents...

The assumption of peds needs to made for any high schooler under 15:00 XC or 4:15 mile. Whether it’s legal medication that enhances performance or not doesn’t matter. Running faster than those times except for rare talent is a joke. Anyone who does should immediately get a drug test for it to count.

I ran 15:20 on a moderately difficult XC course off of very inconsistent training (in summer, I averaged about 40 miles and ran about 35-45 in season). I consider myself talented but not extremely talented, and I only began running freshman year. I was completely clean.

So, I wouldn’t be surprised if more talented people or those who had trained since they were 10 could hit those times legally.

Considering how easy it is to buy PEDs on the internet or at a gym, I'm sure there are plenty of HS runners on PEDs. Add to that the fact that most will never be tested and you have the perfect set up for it to happen.

The steroids you take for asthma are not the kind of steroid that helps with athletic performance. And inhaled steroids (which affect the lungs with very little systemic effect) rather than oral steroids are typically prescribed for asthma.