LeBron James - GOAT

running sucks, bball rules wrote:

GoldenMiles wrote:

Interesting. I've never heard LeBron (Lebron?) accused of PED use before. But I'm not a basketball expert. I do know he's bulked up muscularly a lot in recent seasons.

He's more than bulked up a bit. Dude's face has morphed more than Barry Bonds' did.

So you really think he's done steroids? Does that even help much in basketball? And I'm not saying you're wrong--I just never hear b-ball players accused ever.

Jordan defensively is what separates him. Offensively theres about 30 players in nba history that you can make a case for.

Michael Jordan is not the GOAT in my book after he "tapped out" of basketball to play baseball.

The greatest don't just QUIT on the sport and teammates.

lemon trot wrote:

Jordan defensively is what separates him. Offensively theres about 30 players in nba history that you can make a case for.

LeBron's defense is on a par w/ Jordans.

not even close, Jordan is the best defensive player of all time.

The ability of a player to guard centers if they are a 2 or a 3, is highly overemphasized here. It doesn't happen that often if the player is capable of it.

Being great at defense has to do with usual matchups one on one, but ALSO how one guards the rest of the player from the off the ball side. That's where effective defense really happens more frequently. Jordan was tremendous at off the ball stuff. You remember him stealing the ball from Malone at the end of the championship series? Thats one example of hundreds and hundreds of times that he's done stuff like that. Blocking shots, stealing passes, getting up on people from off his man. The guy shut down the whole court. Russell was also like that. Those two are the best defensive players and I don't think these others quite compare, no matter how many people they match up with because of size. Size is overrated on defense because as stated a player of different size than a center or forward can cut off lanes and create havoc if they are athletic and can move off the opposite half of the court.

That's boring x and o's stuff, but it's magnitutde is felt in competition.

Okcw wrote:

Michael Jordan is not the GOAT in my book after he "tapped out" of basketball to play baseball.

The greatest don't just QUIT on the sport and teammates.

Riiiight...LeBron didn't leave his team in Cleveland?

Jordon quit on the sport? His dad was just murdered, he most likely made a deal with the NBA to sit out a few years for his excessive gambling....or you can make your arguement and say he quit.

LeBron scores single digits one game, takes himself out of one game (where were the trainers working on him) next game he shoot's 60% on mostly jumpers ala Steve Kerr. Just doesn't have the consistency of Jordan or Kobe. Sometimes it's like he's almost not there.

lemon trot wrote:

not even close, Jordan is the best defensive player of all time.

no he isn't. Don't be silly.

LeBron is much more versatile defensively. There is great value in that.

lemon trot wrote:

not even close, Jordan is the best defensive player of all time.

Pippen was arguably a better defender than Jordan. You could argue that Jordan was only the third best defender on his team, behind Pippen and Rodman.

People act like MJ won 6 titles on his own. The Bulls teams in the late 90s were completely stacked. Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Harper, Kukoc and Kerr. Those teams would have a chance at the making the NBA Finals without Jordan. Conference Finals for sure.

The Cavs teams would have stuggled to win 20-30 games with LeBron. LeBron took a team of Booby Gibson, Damon Jones, Larry Hughes, Sasha V., Drew Gooden and a broken down Big Z to the Finals. Ilgauskas and Gooden would be the only two recognizable by last name alone.

Also... Jordan had Phil Jackson. LeBron had Mike Brown. There is a reason LeBron isn't undefeated in the Finals.

Actually... Pippen was a better defender than Jordan. So was Rodman. Saying Jordan was the greatest defender of all time is ridiculous. Pippen usually guarded the other teams top perimeter player and Harper often guarded the second best perimeter player. Jordan often guarded the weakest perimeter until the final few minutes of the game, allowing him to gamble and cheat off his man as well as conserve energy for offense.

Russell, Wilt and Kareem are the 3 greatest centers ever. No way Shaq is ahead of Kareem. Kareem had a sky hook that was unstoppable. Shaq was taken out of close games at the end because he was such a poor free throw shooter. Plus Kareem knows karate.

seriously.... wrote:

LeBron scores single digits one game, takes himself out of one game (where were the trainers working on him) next game he shoot's 60% on mostly jumpers ala Steve Kerr. Just doesn't have the consistency of Jordan or Kobe. Sometimes it's like he's almost not there.

Haha you can't be serious, LeBron has two bad games before he drains 35 in a dominating effort over the Spurs and "sometimes it's like he's almost not there"

Kareem had a shot that no one could stop. Once he got you on the block, it was like butter.

GOAT

One on one defense does not make you a great defense player.

Its team defense and how you work within that scheme to help out everyone on the court.

You'd have to know basketball to know that. I know basketball, you dont.

Kiss my grits

True. Russell lost every match up with Wilt, yet was the most dominant defensive player on the court. It's how you effect the other team, not just one player. You might be losing a match up inside, but when the other 4 players on teams are looking over their shoulder to see if you are coming to block their shot, it's devastating.

Genro wrote:

One on one defense does not make you a great defense player.

Its team defense and how you work within that scheme to help out everyone on the court.

You'd have to know basketball to know that. I know basketball, you dont.

Kiss my grits

GoldenMiles wrote:

Jordan had 6 rings (could've EASILY had 8 if he didn't try his hand at baseball).

People who say crap like this are so stupid and have no knowledge of basketball. I content Jordan would have won less than 6 titles had he not taken a break from basketball. Do you realize the physical and mental toll playing a minimum of 16 high intensity games a year in the playoffs takes on the body? And you think Jordan could have done that 8 times in a row? Against the players of the 90s? You're a delusional buffoon.

GoldenMiles wrote:

So you really think he's done steroids? Does that even help much in basketball? And I'm not saying you're wrong--I just never hear b-ball players accused ever.

Biogenesis LeBron Google

This is the stupidity we deal with on LetsRun... LeBron "left his team in Cleveland."First off, it was not his team. Secondly, he was a free agent. Thirdly, when you research a free-agent, get back to me. Finally, Jordan QUIT Basketball. It's a freaking title in his book, "Quitting Basketball."I watched every game Jordan ever played. LeBron would shut down MJ in a heart-beat.

seriously.... wrote:

Riiiight...LeBron didn't leave his team in Cleveland?

Okcw wrote:

This is the stupidity we deal with on LetsRun... LeBron "left his team in Cleveland."

First off, it was not his team. Secondly, he was a free agent. Thirdly, when you research a free-agent, get back to me. Finally, Jordan QUIT Basketball. It's a freaking title in his book, "Quitting Basketball."

I watched every game Jordan ever played. LeBron would shut down MJ in a heart-beat.

seriously.... wrote:

Riiiight...LeBron didn't leave his team in Cleveland?

Agreed that Lebron could shut down Jordan, but I highly doubt you watched every game MJ ever played