Marathon "winners" DQ'd - more to the story?

Ms. Kiianmies, why would anyone consider Finnish times over Norwegian times when you are, yet again, not even in the top five of happiest nations in the world?

Norway>Finland wrote:

This practice of not offering packet pickup on race day seems a bit counterintuitive from the perspective of a race director. Certainly not a good move to DQ the winners, as any semi-local runners who see this will probably be a bit turned off if they are forced to get a hotel or drive out twice. Unless there is some sort of race/hotel conspiracy going on. That would certainly be something to discuss further.

I am a masters runner who has a lot of disposable income, as does the group I train with - exactly the demographic that RDs should be targeting (good for sponsorship, good for charging high entry prices).

We don't do most non-local races that don't do race day pickup. We all have jobs and families and we aren't going to drive two hours to go pick up a package, and we aren't going to stay overnight to run some podunk race.

RDs need to think this through a bit better.

Chloe wrote:

but the race officials decided after 2 hrs of debating that we couldn't be counted as the official winners bc they didn't have our mile splits, just our finnish times. It was basically a miscommunication and they felt very badly about it. They all knew we were the actual top finishers but decided to "go by the books" anyway.

This where human judgement needs to come in.

If they know they won and truly believed they ran the whole course, they should not need intermediate splits to be official.

For ages races have been won without official intermediate splits.

You register, you run the distance, you win, you should be given the win.

Read the Entry Form wrote:

They not only didn't get splits on the "winners" but without chips at the start, they only had 'unofficial' overall times.

It's actually your overall time that is your official time, not your chip time.

If you beat someone to the finish line but they have a faster chip time because they started behind you, they still get placed behind you in order.

Gun time is what counts.

To Star - It's not always gun time any more. To me, it should be, but more races are going to chip time these days for awards. Makes it a lot easier to game the system. One time I had a bet going with a few of my friends, we bet post-race beers on who had the best chip time. We started together but I hung back a few steps at the start, then just aught up to them and we ran most of the race together. At the end me and 2 other guys were sprinting to the finish and they both beat me but my chip time was a couple seconds faster than theirs due to the start differential. I bought next time.

To Read the Entry Form - I hear what you are saying. We only produce a handful of races but we get tons of calls/emails to about stuff that is on the forms or clearly stated on our website. It's frustrating, a huge time drain. Erik and Chloe should have known no race day packet pickup. It's all over the race's website, in their FAQ's. The race even notes that someone can pick up your bib for you and they give directions on how to do so. No way to excuse the runners for failing to take care of business. If the race had stuck to that for a reason I'd be more in their court, but according to what Chloe wrote and what is on the news reports the race let them run without bibs then took action partially based on them not having intermediate splits. There are other finishers listed without intermediate splits. The race needs to be consistent in how they apply their rules.

Regarding start splits, although the race didn't post gun/chip differentials in their results so you can't tell based on my experience working with chips I suspect other runners had "no read" start chip splits. I produce a race with about 3000 marathon starters and 1000 relay starters with chips and every year we have 30-40 runners whose chips don't read at the start or read a "0.00" time lag. In some cases it is runners who start right on the front line, but not always. Chips are not a 100% fool-proof system, so you are not wise to rely on them blindly for proofing your results.

d2xccoach wrote:

You mention that one of the main reasons you and Erik were DQ'd because they "didn't have your mile splits, just your finish time". I notice that in the half marathon 147th place, 442nd place, 705th place are all missing intermediate splits. If they are going to DQ you and Erik under those grounds it would be right for them to DQ anyone else missing intermediate splits. But that's bad logic because chips fail on occasion, for many reasons.

It is also bad logic because nobody would care (including those runners)if the 147th,442nd, and 705th place runners are DQ-ed.

But for the overall winner it's gotta be gun time, not chip time.

Any time that would be official for record purposes has to be gun time, not chip time.

Read the Entry Form wrote:

I work at a running store that puts on 80+ events a year, and we CONTINUALLY have people calling about things that are clearly printed on the entry forms that people just don't read and blindly fill out and enter.

It is the responsibility of the entrant to read ALL race related material especially as far as packet pick-up and chip timing.

They not only didn't get splits on the "winners" but without chips at the start, they only had 'unofficial' overall times.

Yes, it sucks to go through all that and not get the win, but the procedure was the same for all the other entrants that didn't win too, yet they showed up and followed the right procedures.

I do wish both first finishers the best in the future, and a costly lesson this was.

Give me a break. People just want to freaking sign up for a race and run it, and not feel a need to get legal counsel to read the fine print.

Star wrote:

But for the overall winner it's gotta be gun time, not chip time.

Any time that would be official for record purposes has to be gun time, not chip time.

Not necessarily; and not always....particularly in this day & age.

Read your entry form carefully.

Most likely the two cut the course. Pretty easy to slip on and off the course when you don't have a number.

This is for the standards to qualify for the US marathon trials:

http://www.usatf.org/Sports/Road-Running/OlympicTeamTrials/2016QualifyingStandards.aspx

"Gun" time is the only acceptable method of timing. Chip/net times cannot be used for qualifying.

So the runners in this event were DQed because they only had gun times, not chip times.

They should be given the win since their result is actually valid for qualifying purposes.

Star wrote:

This is for the standards to qualify for the US marathon trials:

http://www.usatf.org/Sports/Road-Running/OlympicTeamTrials/2016QualifyingStandards.aspx

"Gun" time is the only acceptable method of timing. Chip/net times cannot be used for qualifying.

So the runners in this event were DQed because they only had gun times, not chip times.

They should be given the win since their result is actually valid for qualifying purposes.

No way that the course meets the qualifying standards, so their win would not be valid for qualifying purposes.

KimboW wrote:

Most likely the two cut the course. Pretty easy to slip on and off the course when you don't have a number.

Are you kidding me? Did you even read the rest of the thread? Here is a quote from CHLOE herself (*THE* Chloe): "Both of us registered, paid our fee, ran the entire race fair and square, but the race officials decided after 2 hrs of debating that we couldn't be counted as the official winners bc they didn't have our mile splits, just our finnish times."

You Americans outrage me. Chloe doesn't seem like a Rosie Ruiz type to me.

I can't believe that the judges argued for two hours and, at the end of all that, decided to DQ Chloe and Erik while letting 147th, 442nd, and 705th place keep their times. What kind of a country is this, I ask?!

As someone who has put on more than 100 races, the RD had no choice but to DQ them. If not, it would have set a bad precedent for future races. In futures races, participants could decide not to pick up their number and run anyway. I would have had my race staff immediately escort them off the course for not wearing a number.

I've managed races with and without race day packet pick-up. Logistically, it just makes sense not to have race day pick-up.

Bottom line is that these two did not abide by the rules set up by the RD. Should have been easy decision to DQ.

KimboW wrote:

I can't believe that the judges argued for two hours and, at the end of all that, decided to DQ Chloe and Erik while letting 147th, 442nd, and 705th place keep their times. What kind of a country is this, I ask?!

maybe Sal slipped them new compelling video evidence so they had to DQ them.

How did you verify that this was "Chloe?"

Proud Finn wrote:

KimboW wrote:

Most likely the two cut the course. Pretty easy to slip on and off the course when you don't have a number.

Are you kidding me? Did you even read the rest of the thread? Here is a quote from CHLOE herself (*THE* Chloe): "Both of us registered, paid our fee, ran the entire race fair and square, but the race officials decided after 2 hrs of debating that we couldn't be counted as the official winners bc they didn't have our mile splits, just our finnish times."

You Americans outrage me. Chloe doesn't seem like a Rosie Ruiz type to me.

I can't believe that the judges argued for two hours and, at the end of all that, decided to DQ Chloe and Erik while letting 147th, 442nd, and 705th place keep their times. What kind of a country is this, I ask?!

I think you may be on to something here. Maybe Salazar was off course to give them some injections. Are we sure this wasn't actually Galen doing some sort of workout?

Because Proud Finn and Chloe are Besties, OBVI

Proud Finn wrote:

I can't believe that the judges argued for two hours and, at the end of all that, decided to DQ Chloe and Erik while letting 147th, 442nd, and 705th place keep their times. What kind of a country is this, I ask?!

Well I am not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America!