Why Flotrack is Killing our Sport

Rudiger wrote:

At the moment, they continue to shove the service as it is and are determined to convince us that this is how things must absolutely be. It really comes off as arrogant, especially when they make claims of trying to save the sport. Its very 'with us or against us': if you don't agree with our plan then you are killing the sport.

+1 for the reality of the situation and my post uses yours as a launchpad.

Assume we didn't have flotrack.

Would people still run races if Flotrack didn't exist? Yes

Could we still follow live race coverage online if Flotrack didn't exist? Hytek Live Result pages for major events are free via most timing websites. In the age of twitter anything live is possible.

Do we need video? No, it's a nice luxury but some split information or spectator recaps would be fine. Sometimes I love reading spectator recaps. Guys/gals who are passionate fans and not necessarily the journalist types. No fluff.

Do we depend on live video coverage? Again, no. It's just a bonus.

Do we need websites? Again, this is something that is convenient and an overall bonus. PDF/HTML results are plenty fine.

Ryan Fenton and company are just incapable of getting real jobs.

Hate Flotrack.

I pay $8 a month for Netflix that has infinitely more programming including original shows. $15 a month for HBO and Game of Thrones.

Why would I pay $20 a month for a steady cam in row 35?

HATE THESE GUYS.

The Penn Relays are not killing the sport at all. They need to make a few bucks to keep it going, but the relays are a major part of track and field. It does nothing but good for the sport.

I think Flotrack's overpriced, too. But, I'm paying anyway because there isn't a good alternative for video coverage of NCAA meets, which is what I care about. And, I want to support the sport.

Agree with one of the earlier posts re: it's hard to make enough on ads alone. A subscription model makes sense. But, I think it should be $99 / year or $9.99 / month. I'll be they'd get at least 2X the subscribers and make more $.

A few things Flotrack could do to make their service better:

1) Improve the quality of the broadcast. That includes less shaky cameras on the back of golf carts and better play by play. Both should be doable. Having 2 - 3 fixed cameras in addition to the golf cart camera is very doable. HD cameras are cheap nowadays. Add a drone to XC coverage, have real-time HD streaming and I'd gladly pay $20/month.

2) Stop with the attitude. They think they're funny, but 99% of the time they're not. Just be competent.

3) Have moderated forums. They could really kick LRC's butt if they had active, moderated forums.

4) Add curated content to original content. Like LRC does, but organize it in logical ways (e.g., High School, College, Pros; sprints, jumps, throws, distance, etc.).

5) Add articles to the video coverage. Flotrack seems to want to do everything in video. They shouldn't. What results is poor quality, seat of the pants video.

I think this post completely nails it. That said, I highly doubt flotrack will take that advice and change anything.

Frankly, I still think letsrun has a huge opportunity here that they are missing. Flotrack is doing a great job, but it could be way way better. Letsrun already has a good staff and a dedicated user base. Why not try covering a race or two? Doesn't matter if it's roads/XC/track. Give it a try, charge people something like $1 to watch the race, and see what happens.

Brojos, if you read this and are interested, I would love to help you make it happen sometime in 2016.

Let's all be honest. Gordon Mack is the reason FloTrack sucks... Get rid of him and I'll pay $250 a year membership to watch shitty commentating that doesn't involve him.

Some of their videos are excellent, most are okay, some are very weak.

Race coverage is average at best.

Doubtful that I will renew my subscription.

Some of their videos are excellent, most are okay, some are very weak.

Race coverage is average at best.

Doubtful that I will renew my subscription.

Been all downhill since that exodus by Mitch Kastoff, Alex Lohr, Chris Chavez and Isaac Wood. Why did they all leave pretty close to eachother? Where are they now?

preach it to the choir, son!

flotrack pro user wrote:

Frankly, I still think letsrun has a huge opportunity here that they are missing. Flotrack is doing a great job, but it could be way way better. Letsrun already has a good staff and a dedicated user base. Why not try covering a race or two? Doesn't matter if it's roads/XC/track. Give it a try, charge people something like $1 to watch the race, and see what happens.

Brojos, if you read this and are interested, I would love to help you make it happen sometime in 2016.

No way am I charging $1 to watch a race. If I did some ridiculous meet that has no real spectator appeal, I'd charge much more than that. To get into most meets it's like $8-10. If you are out of town, it's going to cost a ton to get there so charging more than it costs to get in live makes sense.

The vast majority of subscribers are parents. Colleges stream tons of sporting events. But if you stream a girls volleyball game, the potential audience is what 20 sets of parents. If 100% of them pay $20 to watch it, you get $400. Not worth it from a monetary stand point but schools may do it for marketing/recruiting. I just went to the Penn State website and you can watch the hockey games for free on there.

If you stream a college track meet with 50 teams of 50 people each, the potential audience is 2500 sets of parents. If even 10% of them pay $20, it's $5000. If 50% of them forget to cancel their service for three months, it's $10,000.

My biggest complaint and I imagine the reason why the have an F on the better business page as shown here

is because of the recurring charge. I 100% think you should be able to pay for a one off meet. I also 100% think the price should be listed before you sign up. Currently that's not the case. Both are very shady.

I'd be happy to stream a big event like Stanford Penn Relays. If I was Penn, I'd insist to flotrack that people be able to buy only the Penn Relays or I'd just do it myself if they refused. I personall have zero interest in streaming the Penn State relays.

-Rojo

To be honest though, I think we are killing off some of the fun of the sport/attendnace by streaming everything. The English Premier league doesn't stream its main set of games in England so people will get out in the stands to support the local team.

When I was at Cornell, there were times when I didn't even bother to go the 11 mile from myhouse to the gym to watch the basketball game. I just sstreamed it. Maybe if I was a college, I'd black it out locally. Force people nearby to come watch it live.

I haven't seen a new WOW in awhile? Is that no longer a feature with their new set up?

First off, thank you to this thread for reminding me to cancel my subscription before it auto-renews again.

For FloPro to be "worth it" to me, it either has to be MUCH cheaper (more in line with my Netflix subscription), or they would really need to prove to me that part of my monthly contribution is going toward some sort of charitable cause. It doesn't even bother me how amateur some of their stuff is - I just don't watch it enough to justify the fee as it is now.

I would think a better model for them (for the college meets in particular) would be to utilize school's AV club to provide the feed. We can probably all agree that muting the commentary is the way to go anyway - so maybe they should just not even bother.

i just think the price is way, way too much. I pay for a couple of specialty interest internet sites but they are a fraction of the cost of Flo-Track (under $100/year) and I get a lot more for my money. Flo-Track has a couple of good meets a year, a bunch of second-tier meets, and some original content they produce (which isn't worth anything to me). For the price they charge I might consider it if they had pretty much every high-profile track and road race streaming on there.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

i just think the price is way, way too much. I pay for a couple of specialty interest internet sites but they are a fraction of the cost of Flo-Track (under $100/year) and I get a lot more for my money. Flo-Track has a couple of good meets a year, a bunch of second-tier meets, and some original content they produce (which isn't worth anything to me). For the price they charge I might consider it if they had pretty much every high-profile track and road race streaming on there.

But they are the only one who covers the BEER MILE!

Mr. Obvious wrote:

I pay for a couple of specialty interest internet sites but they are a fraction of the cost of Flo-Track (under $100/year) and I get a lot more for my money.

Porn & webcams? How can you really expect FloTrack to compete on that level?

rojo wrote:

To be honest though, I think we are killing off some of the fun of the sport/attendnace by streaming everything. The English Premier league doesn't stream its main set of games in England so people will get out in the stands to support the local team.

When I was at Cornell, there were times when I didn't even bother to go the 11 mile from myhouse to the gym to watch the basketball game. I just sstreamed it. Maybe if I was a college, I'd black it out locally. Force people nearby to come watch it live.

Maybe for the local fan base, but for the distant fan base (like parents or collegiate alumni), webstreaming is next best thing to being there in person, followed by social media updates and then live blog updates. I doubt many people will travel from California for an East Coast meet that lasts at most 2 days. I write for Hepstrack.com and we get the highest number of new followers and website hits come every Heps championships. I wish I could attend every championship to enhance the updates I provide, but I can't and I make do with what I do have access to.

The Ivy League provides webstreaming of the Sunday finals for about $10, which is reasonable for me. I don't know how many people tune in for those webstreams, but I bet many parents tune in to try to watch their kids compete. But like Flotrack, the Ivy League was also victim to terrible and very uninformed announcing a few years ago but I think they have smartened up and been able to grab some people who are more knowledgeable and can follow people going around in circles better (director of the Penn Relays Dave Johnson has done Outdoor Heps twice that I know of). But I feel that the conference can definitely improve their general championship coverage as they focus more on the big sports (football, basketball, hockey) come that same time period.

This guys runs Flotrack now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0hyzZJspBI

rojo wrote:

My biggest complaint and I imagine the reason why the have an F on the better business page as shown here

http://goo.gl/xpcXqn

is because of the recurring charge.

The F grade implies more than one area in which their product and service is deficient.

I also disagree about streaming hurting the sport. I love track but if it weren't streamed for free I would almost never watch live. YouTube after the fact is better than most coverage anyway, and lets me watch races I know are good, quickly and on my own schedule.

If the sport cleans itself up I might feel differently, but the crooked leadership and juiced up athletes don't make a product that I want to pay for or bring my kids to see. Rather watch a local high school meet.