down goes liliya shobukhova

According to my gut feeling, Paula Radcliffe is clean.

If your argument is that the world record holder is always doping because they are the record holder and thus faster than some people known to have been using PEDs then your case is without support because there is not a lot of indication that every WR-holder was doping.

Also, why bother with the sport.

Thus, since you seem not to be interested in the sport and since you simply want to brand the record holder as a drug cheat due to the fact that they hold the record, then you are the epitome of a troll.

Nah. I'm not saying what you are saying. I'm saying that the HUGE gap sticks out to me, even more so than any of the other WRs. For instance, I believe that KB was clean for his 5/10k WRs.

Believe what you want. I choose to not believe that a British woman ran 2:15 without some type of aid. That's all. I also did not believe that Lance won 7 tours.

I really love how you attack my commitment/appreciation of sport. It shows a lot of maturity on your part.

26mi235 wrote:

If your argument is that the world record holder is always doping because they are the record holder and thus faster than some people known to have been using PEDs then your case is without support because there is not a lot of indication that every WR-holder was doping.

Also, why bother with the sport.

Thus, since you seem not to be interested in the sport and since you simply want to brand the record holder as a drug cheat due to the fact that they hold the record, then you are the epitome of a troll.

ummm, the argument is, as with Lance's case, the record broker that is better than anybody else, including top drug cheat athletes, is very much likely just another drug cheat. Certainly there's no evidence as the athlete has not gotten caught yet. But the logic suggests the very high likelyhood that no science can deny.

T-Rex wrote:

James Driving wrote:

Wonder if Meb will get caught after last week.

Haters gotta hate

That's what Liliya said. And Lance. And Barry. And Marian. And etc.

simple logic

if doping is rife

and dopers can evade detection easily

and the doping has a profound effect on performance

then the very top of the sport is going to be dominated largely by dopers

the more success the more likely are the performances doped

that's the history of track and field and sport

Sports are more fun to watch when people are using drugs.

wejo wrote:

Point out one time to me where Lance or Rafael ever celebrated a cheat getting caught. I don't think they ever did. They swore they never cheated but it's a different mindset.

...

Paula was made for the marathon.

Here is one time when Lance celebrated a cheat getting caught.

Paula was made for the marathon? More like Paula was made to run. Her times from 3000M up to the Marathon are all nearly equivalent to one another in terms of performance/potential. She has an ability to stay focused better than most.

7890 wrote:

well this doesn't give me any confidence in the quality of the drug testing at the marathon majors.

She ran lots of majors and was never caught til the passport.

Wasn't she the one who ran faster than the men for the last 5k of Chicago? Not sure.

Yes she did. I remember Dr. Canova talking about it.

She beat Moses Mosop I think.

According to Dr. Canova, Mosop didn't have fuel (I forget the reason he gave) for the last few kms unlike Shobukhova who ran a great last 5k.

Wow!

i was there wrote:

7890 wrote:

well this doesn't give me any confidence in the quality of the drug testing at the marathon majors.

She ran lots of majors and was never caught til the passport.

Wasn't she the one who ran faster than the men for the last 5k of Chicago? Not sure.

Yes, that was her. No red flag there at all. All her results from 2009 on are gone. She started marathoning in 2009, so she can be pretty much completely erased from the marathon books. She'll lose all her race titles and her two WMM titles, but not much chance they'll get that $1 million or any of the other money back, I'd guess.

This is a great day for the sport. Congratulations and thanks to everyone involved with the biological passport system.

Since with this ban Shobukhova loses the two WMM(2009 & 2010) titles with the prize money associated with the titles, does it mean Irina Mikitenko(2009) and Edna Kiplagat(2010) become the legitimate title winners for the two years respectively? And will the WMM now write the checks due to them?

No discussion, eh? There would be discussions in court about all of your proposed fines, and none of them would be found legal.

Kapcherop wrote:

Since with this ban Shobukhova loses the two WMM(2009 & 2010) titles with the prize money associated with the titles, does it mean Irina Mikitenko(2009) and Edna Kiplagat(2010) become the legitimate title winners for the two years respectively? And will the WMM now write the checks due to them?

Reissuing medals is cheap. Cash on the other hand...Will these two sue WMM?

MIC ITW wrote:

wejo wrote:

Point out one time to me where Lance or Rafael ever celebrated a cheat getting caught. I don't think they ever did. They swore they never cheated but it's a different mindset.

...

Paula was made for the marathon.

Here is one time when Lance celebrated a cheat getting caught.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/11/article-2231428-15F976F3000005DC-253_964x300.jpg

Paula was made for the marathon? More like Paula was made to run. Her times from 3000M up to the Marathon are all nearly equivalent to one another in terms of performance/potential. She has an ability to stay focused better than most.

Actually, I think Paula's marathon time is out of line with the rest of her performances. The difference is that - in that era - testing at marathons was rudimentary at best. So, the argument kind of goes the other way. Personally, I think her marathon time (and I know I might as well be drawing a pentagram on the ground and summoning Ventolin....) is about equivalent to

1. 29:10

2. 14:05

3. 3:52

Oh, sorry... I meant to type

'draw your own conclusions'

There is a former top American female runner who once made some very strong remarks off the record about Paula and blood doping.

Bryan Hall wrote:

There is a former top American female runner who once made some very strong remarks off the record about Paula and blood doping.

Who was that?

lol @ Paula still pretending she was clean.

lol @ the people who actually believe her.

This Russian was merely a sacrificial lamb. The big money-makers are still doping to the dorsals. WADA is a joke.

just sayin wrote:

simple logic

if doping is rife

and dopers can evade detection easily

and the doping has a profound effect on performance

then the very top of the sport is going to be dominated largely by dopers

the more success the more likely are the performances doped

that's the history of track and field and sport

You have listed three assumptions that are needed to make your conclusion true. I believe that all three assumptions are correct, hence I believe your conclusion is valid. Well stated.

I understand that you hope that Radcliffe wasn't a doper - especially since you know her and trained with her. I think that although many people would probably disagree with the sentiment they would understand where you are coming from. I know plenty of elite level runners in my area - including Olympic medalists and World Record holders - and think (and hope) that they are all clean. They are friends and acquaintances of mine. Again I think people understand that (and probably would believe the same thing in my situtation).

However your belief that because Radcliffe is slamming a cheater makes her less likely to also be a cheater is, quite frankly, insane. We can go down the list of convicted dopers and everyone of them loudly proclaimed their innocence, even after being caught. The only difference between someone like Lance Armstrong and Radcliffe is that no one cares about Radcliffe enough to go back and try to determine if she was a doper - so she's in the clear. Unless someone spills the beans on her (which is totally unlikely) we'll never know.