Meant to type 20's...also I've only done 3 marathons total and one of them was 2 weeks after the other out of frustration...
Meant to type 20's...also I've only done 3 marathons total and one of them was 2 weeks after the other out of frustration...
pasthisprime wrote:
Reg, I'm no expert but that seems solid. You do break down in a marathon... Have you tried running in calf compression sleeves? It looks dumb, but research has shown that it can serve to keep your lower leg moving in the right positions.
You're really almost there, you've just got this one little obstacle keeping you from getting there!
Thanks, I'm going to seriously look into this. I'm going to work my hardest and give this all one last shot in Philly in Nov. thanks again for the suggestion!
The charity runners are not taking the place of fast runners. They are taking the place of the slowest qualifiers. If we eliminate charity runners (which I favor), the ones who will benefit are the slowest qualifiers.
And the slowest qualifiers are not taking the place of faster runners. Anyone who beats BQ by at least 20 minutes get to register before others. And the 10min.+ qualifiers get to register before the 5min.+ qualifiers, who get to register before the rest.
If the fastest hobby joggers want to feel superior by looking down on those who barely beat BQ, perhaps they should register for a more selective race.
African_Penguin wrote:
Reg fields wrote:I know being 6'2" 195 prob doesn't help but I've always been a big guy...
Hey Reg, I think I caught you on a another thread before. I'm 5'11" and just finished my first full a little under 190 lbs and did it in 2:54 and my half PR is a little slower than yours.
The differences for me, was a little higher mileage - 60-70mpw and every other week taking a bigger chunk of my long run at a faster pace. I started with 4 miles and worked up to a 20 miler where the last 9 were 620-630.
Also, something to consider with nutrition - at a heavier weight your going to naturally burn more calories than a heavier runner. While you're able to store more glycogen than the average runner, you would probably need replenish at a higher rate. 3 gels is what you or I would burn off somewhere a little over 2 miles, where a 150lb runner might only need 200 calories to cover the same distance. Just something to consider. I took a little more nutrition than you did and still hit the wall at about 22. But that might be more of a factor of me running 15-20 too fast.
Congrats on breaking 3! That's a good point about nutrition, the key is if I can get under 190 that would help big time. I was honestly hoping being in 1:20 shape and going out in 1:28 would mean my body would burn less carbs and a little more fat per calorie because I wasn't going close to my threshold. Who knows. Keep up the good work, is sub 2:50 your next goal?
Marathon Expert wrote:
Fukuoka is already exactly what you described and it's kinda lame.
Not for the people who have actually run it.
Yeah, I see what you're saying there....you did go out pretty conservatively for being in 1:20 shape.
Next goal is sub 120 at Pittsburgh this weekend and then I'm going to focus on a bunch of shorter stuff - Mile, 5K and 10K this summer/ fall.
I might do LA marathon next spring and would hope to go 2:4x. We'll see. I wasn't a big fan of the marathon training, and would really like to get my 5K down significantly.
Are you running the Philly full again this year?
Reg fields wrote:
Meant to type 20's...also I've only done 3 marathons total and one of them was 2 weeks after the other out of frustration...
I think you are genetically predisposed to doing bad marathon training. One 20 miler and your asking whether genetics and nutrition are the cause of your cramping? Wow.
How about these standards, reasonably rounded numbers at relative age grade equivalents:
3:00 for open men
3:10 - 40-49
3:20 - 50-59
3:30 - 60-69
4:00 - 70+
3:20 for open women
3:30 - 40-49
3:40 - 50-59
3:50 - 60-69
4:20 - 70+
Offer a few thousand charity bibs but have a 5:00 or 5:30 hour cutoff. If they can't make it in that time, OMG this is Boston find another venue to walk-jog!
Yup, I'm running the Philly full again this year. Hopefully I'll be healthy enough to get a full compliment of training in this year.
I'm not sold on marathons either and enjoy the shorter stuff more but it's something about the challenge that makes me come back. I've figured out 5Ks, 10Ks, Half Marathons so its a challenge for me.
Well I was injured but i did do an 18, 16 etc so it's not like I just did one 20. Obviously I intended to do 2. I know I'll never be as fast as many on this board but I'm much better at the short stuff in general.
lumanwalters wrote:
I once said that marathons shouldn't give medals just for finishing, they shouldn't take pictures of people who aren't getting a podium finish, and the cut-off times should be much, much less. People got very, very mad.
Charities get really mad when someone tries to deprive them of millions because he's a brainless a hole
[quote]Reg fields wrote:
I do think genetics play a big role in qualifying. I'm 6'2" 195 lbs and tried several times to qualify and have missed by a few minutes each time because of late race cramps. I can run a 1hr 20 min half marathon so its not just a matter of fitness. Some people are much more genetically predisposed to endurance running just like playing basketball maybe be harder for some while others "just have it" to start with.
-------------------
Genetics BS I'm 6'0 and weigh 200lbs. Guess what when I weighed 147 lbs I was running a lot faster. Had injuries and getting older but if I really wanted to I could swim go to the gym and loose the weight. I don't because I only liked running and hate the gym etc ie I am lazy!
Just admit you are lazy but at least one time I did the work required and ran reasonable times
You just need to top over eating easier said than done but don't blame genetics - just admit you are a lazy fat slob like me
Reg.
Some unsolicited advice. First, lose 5+ pounds. It matters. Then, add a second long run each week, say 13-14 miles, and do it at 7 minutes a mile with the last few more like 6:30.
Force a GU down every 5K in the race, and about half way literally stop at an aide station and chug multiple cups of Gatorade. That takes like 15 seconds and it mattered to me.
That did the trick for me a few years back. I was still begging for my mommy the last mile, but got in at 2:57, and the second long run was the only real change in my training that I made.
On other thing ... I also barely tapered. Really just mellowed out the last 5 days or so.
Well good luck this year man. I'm sure through a complete training cycle you demolish your current PR.
not a geneticist wrote:
Reg fields wrote:Meant to type 20's...also I've only done 3 marathons total and one of them was 2 weeks after the other out of frustration...
I think you are genetically predisposed to doing bad marathon training. One 20 miler and your asking whether genetics and nutrition are the cause of your cramping? Wow.
One 20 miler.
Peaking at 50-60 mpw.
Interrupted training cycle due to injury.
Only 3 total marathons run, and 2 of them were a few weeks apart.
195 lbs.
Possibly underfueling during the race given his size.
Repeatedly suffers from calf cramps yet has never looked into wearing calf sleeves.
Going to give it just one more last harrah.
Yes, being scientifically-minded, I am sure it is safe to conclude that Reg has done everything in his power to optimize his marathon time. There is no other explanation for his underperformance than genetics... the only thing completely out of his control (besides the weather).
If this wasn't real, this could have been one of the best troll efforts I've seen.
Reg - just a suggestion. Forget the "last harrah" attitude. Commit to a 2-year process. No heroics. Either demonstrate some discipline to follow the process, or stop blaming genetics and admit you aren't willing to put in the long-term work necessary. (Long term does not = 1 or 2 interrupted marathon training cycles). Lose at least 15-20 pounds. Look at your diet. Use the next 2 years to SLOWLY build you mileage by adding in easy running. Having a long run somewhere between 30-40% of your weekly mileage (20 out of 50-60) is far, far, far, from optimal. There is a reason you are decent at the half and sucking at the full. Mileage is KEY for the marathon. You can get by on 50-60 for a decent half, but the lower mileage bites you in the full.
I'm am normally nicer, but your excuse-making has annoyed me. Sorry about being harsh, but I almost skipped the "suggestion" part, so this post could have been much worse.
Reg fields wrote:
Well I was injured but i did do an 18, 16 etc so it's not like I just did one 20. Obviously I intended to do 2. I know I'll never be as fast as many on this board but I'm much better at the short stuff in general.
Are you following a published training plan? Which one?
Reg,
Since you seem to underestimate the importance of mileage for the marathon, you might not have ever seen the calculator that accounts for training mileage.
Plug in your 10k time for the different mileage levels and you might find it enlightening... (if you don't ignore what it shows you).
Reg,
Since you seem to underestimate the importance of mileage for the marathon, you might not have ever seen the calculator that accounts for training mileage.
Plug in your 10k time for the different mileage levels and you might find it enlightening... (if you don't ignore what it shows you).
Yeah right wrote:
Reg.
Some unsolicited advice. First, lose 5+ pounds. It matters. Then, add a second long run each week, say 13-14 miles, and do it at 7 minutes a mile with the last few more like 6:30.
Force a GU down every 5K in the race, and about half way literally stop at an aide station and chug multiple cups of Gatorade. That takes like 15 seconds and it mattered to me.
That did the trick for me a few years back. I was still begging for my mommy the last mile, but got in at 2:57, and the second long run was the only real change in my training that I made.
On other thing ... I also barely tapered. Really just mellowed out the last 5 days or so.
Yeah Right- Uncanny how this played out. I lost the 5+ lbs (got down around 185ish, prob closer to 190 after carb loading), I added the second long run like you suggested midweek with the last few miles at a faster pace. I focused on more Gatorade during the race and then got the same 2:57 that you finished in.
Everyone else in the thread- You were right about mileage and more long runs as I went to 70+ MPW and multiple long runs of 20+ and it seemed to make a difference. Feels good to break 3 and I obviously training smarter contributed to that a lot.
I'll still maintain that I finished in 2:57 (1:29/1:28 splits) and more naturally talented runners could've blown that time away with the same exact training plan but my discrepancy between my half (1:20) and my previous fulls (3:08 and 3:09 ) weren't fully caused by genetics.
Thank you to all that took the time to contribute to the thread, thought it was worth a follow-up after reading through it.
Reg Fields wrote:
Yeah right wrote:Reg.
Some unsolicited advice. First, lose 5+ pounds. It matters. Then, add a second long run each week, say 13-14 miles, and do it at 7 minutes a mile with the last few more like 6:30.
Force a GU down every 5K in the race, and about half way literally stop at an aide station and chug multiple cups of Gatorade. That takes like 15 seconds and it mattered to me.
That did the trick for me a few years back. I was still begging for my mommy the last mile, but got in at 2:57, and the second long run was the only real change in my training that I made.
On other thing ... I also barely tapered. Really just mellowed out the last 5 days or so.
Yeah Right- Uncanny how this played out. I lost the 5+ lbs (got down around 185ish, prob closer to 190 after carb loading), I added the second long run like you suggested midweek with the last few miles at a faster pace. I focused on more Gatorade during the race and then got the same 2:57 that you finished in.
Everyone else in the thread- You were right about mileage and more long runs as I went to 70+ MPW and multiple long runs of 20+ and it seemed to make a difference. Feels good to break 3 and I obviously training smarter contributed to that a lot.
I'll still maintain that I finished in 2:57 (1:29/1:28 splits) and more naturally talented runners could've blown that time away with the same exact training plan but my discrepancy between my half (1:20) and my previous fulls (3:08 and 3:09 ) weren't fully caused by genetics.
Thank you to all that took the time to contribute to the thread, thought it was worth a follow-up after reading through it.
Wait a minute... a letsrun thread where people offered advice, the guy LISTENED, and due to that he IMPROVED?!? I haven't seen this happen on letsrun in a long time. Good job Reg, keep it up! Always good to see someone figuring out their running.