Antonio, very similar to Italians?
Antonio, very similar to Italians?
Mr. Cabral:
Very interesting indeed and, I may say, spot-on with your observation with Japanese! Well, let me just say: "Why do you think I left Japan!?"
But not all. Obedience and discipline are indeed a huge part of Japanese culture and ingrained in their training philosophy. Somebody started a thread titled "Japanese marathon monk" and Seko may be a good example for that. Of course, Seko was probably capable of winning the Olympic gold medal but managed to finish 15th and 8th (something like that...of course, I was even wrong about Aburaya's placing!). Now I have my own theory; I love ski jump and I was watching, I believe, 1992 winter Olympic Games and saw Japanese jumpers face-painted the Japanese flag. Some had a little ponytail (these are guys!). I couldn't believe it! Those Japanese monk athletes who were "ordered" to have crew-cut!? Then I thought; perhaps they would do well from now on... You see, Japanese had always been very tense. They were never relaxed. How do you expect to perform at the very top level when you are NOT relaxed? At the first LA Olympics in, what, 1932 (check), the Japanese sprinter, Yoshioka who was probably the fastest in the world upto 50m, was expected to win. He was given a bandana by one of his fans. The Japanese flag, the rising sun, was drawn....with blood! What a pressure! When you can't relax, you tense up. When you're tense, you cannot perform at your best.
Now Japanese athletes are more relaxed. I saw Naoko Takayashi, minutes before Sydney Olympic marathon, dancing to her walk-man. I thought, she'd do well. She did. Shibui has her hair dyed and always makes funny comments. When she ran her debut 2:23, she said, at the press conference, something about her aXX cracking and couldn't run fast....on national TV! Every coach has their style. Koide (Takahashi's coach) seems to be very relaxed and friendly. There are others who are much more tight-aXX that you can, as Ferris B would say, stick a coal in his aXX you'll get a diamond. They still have had some success believe it or not (winning the world champs) but their runners seem to have much more problem, if not immediately, later on. And that ritual of the head coach not speaking directly...yeah, I have seen it first hand too. I think it's absolutely stupid. It's either trying to keep, as you said, hierarchical order right that the athlete is not worthy of speaking directly to the head coach; or because the head coach usually is the tight-aXXed one that they are trying to get that tense relayed to the athletes (so they have a buffer--the assistant coach, or a messenger).
There’s so much more than just a training program, isn’t it? And that’s what makes coaching fun.
obrigado outra vez para a informação, Antonio.
Yes i saw that you live in USA actually.
Well, that are amazing post your ones. Since long ago that i´m a bit like Cerrutti, i think that all knowledge and culture apart from training and running made us grow. I take so many details for my training concepts from art, culture, movies. Everyone need to expand as a human being. Never forget that before we are runners, we are human beings.
About Sato i did hear that long sessions (50kilos) in 4AM or so...this is obedience and quite non-sense. Sato he is a coach now, right?
Let me tell one think. the Sato´s main problem have a name in that LA Olymoics - not Salazar, not Rod Dixon, but Carlos Lopes. No way i could have been loose ! For a guy that usualy when we ask him "about next race?" he simply said "Let´s see" a few days after the olympics Lopes said "I´m going to win, ther´s no way that i don´t loose". After the maraton he did confess that´s the easier wins at top level that he did. Thus, my friend, forget Sato...(LOL)
Now, about Japan. I´m glad that the atitudes they are changing, times are changing and we run for a global world.
What have say about Japan, evenatually that´s past classic, traditional Japan.
And that´s not fair to say that japaneese they have no artistic or creative sense. Even in the dust and mud sometime they grow the beautifull flowers.
If we think about Mishima - the novel writer (that made also arakiri) or the genius that´s Akira Kurosawa - really a movie director genius: the seven samuray, Ran and much more. I recommend to you all. If we think about Ryuichi Sakamoto - since the Yellow magic Orquestra band to classic music and the love from brasilen Bossa-Nova music style, and also that he played in sveral movies as "Merry Christmas Mr Laurence " with David Bowie also by a japaneese movie director and also hos role in "The Last Emperor" from the italien Bernardo Bertolluci. Beatifull muusic that of Sakamoto.
All that shows that japaneese they have an deep artistic sense, that goes more for "balance art" the sense of beauty and harmony than aciidental artists that think that to be cretive we need to take drugs and create in unbalance.
Some years ago I´ve see a movie about japan that really enjoy me, that´s Toquio-Gan from the German Wim Wenders. We undrestand a duel between what we have comment, the past and the present japan.
Naoko Takahashi, Olympic Gold medal winner in Sydney, seems to run Sato style too.
"... or 50 in the morning, 20 in the afternoon, ..."
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getsp.pl5?sp20030109a1.htm
Same principles have delivered results for Mizuki Noguchi, Olympic gold medal winner in Athens.
"... Noguchi averages about 750 miles per month in her marathon preparation, with an occasional 40-mile day. ..."
https://www.runningtimes.com/issues/04oct/Noguchi.htm
Forget Takahashi and Noguchi? Nonsense?
Vanderlei Lima - not "de" Lima and not Lime" but "Lima".
You need to write correct that portuguese name, better than my english !
But who said - forget Naoki Naoko Takahashi or Naguchi ? Not me !
And who said - forget Sato? Not me !
I said forget Sato in that Olympic LA run, or i´m wrong that Lopes didn´t win that one.
And who said "forget ultra-long ones" ? Not me. If you want to know Alberto Chaiça also did an entire marathon in 2h30min in the hilly course of an altitude stay 2000m meters altitude - in Tenerife - Spain.
But Vanderlei Lima, to wake up at 4AM and do that quite asleep, with no revitalisement - that´s quite mad !
Yu need to understand this - Carlos Lopes did eat 2 beefs with fried potatoes the day before his 2:07:12 - world record - and also Lase Viren said that he takes milk very frequently, or that chineese Wang Xungia did take turtle blood frequently, but that aren´t that the reasons because they did what they did. So, i think the same with the japanese marathon plan. That´s not because that long run that they did what they did, that´s because they have talent, and a multitude of training elements that the mileage volume and that ultra-long runs are just a detail under a large context.
Antonio,
Very good education for me, thank you. Question for you, not about marathon but 5k, 1k repeats at race pace, how many would you reccomend and how much recovery? As little recovery as possible?
Gentilo
I want to be "gentile" with you, but i can´t answer that question really. In what period of your 5000m training you want to do that 1000m reps? What are your training background? What are your specific workouts apart than this 500m workouts? How many days/weeks/months it last to that 5000m run - consider that you train for a single 5000m target in the season ? So many details about your training that i don´t know of you and your training that could change my answer. Well, i just say my opinion based in my mainstream concepts.
If the workout goal that race pace in 1000m sets, after 20min easy wormup i would try for a 5000m run and the workout goal traget that´s "resistence" - to delay the race pace during some distance/duration that can allows you to run your 5000m the workouts goes like this.
3-7 sets of 1000m/estimate race pace recover=3 minutes standing/easy jog.
In the end i will do some 10min easy cooldown once again
I will start with less sets (early in the season) and will try to progress to more sets closer to the race. But usually 5 sets that´s enough. I don´t do that workout if that´s not distant at least 6-7 days before the run.
I don´t use that shorter intervals (like 1min) in 5000m race pace, that´s too short as recover. I don´t agree with that short recover for 1000m race pace. If you are able to run that 1000m sets in Race pace with 1min rest, then something is wrong, or you are a good workout performer than a competor or you will gain more if you try more sets wwith longer recover. I know that some american coaches use that, but in my opinion that´s a mistake.
Now, that workout of 1000m sets that i consider a routine workout, despite that´s not an easy one. But if i want to check the shape for a runner for 5000m, before the run (1 to 3 weeks before) i will advise 5X1000m, first 4 sets in race pace and the last one all out, but with 8 to 10 minutes recover ! That´s good chech test, not workout. In this case you see that the interval is still longer.
In an ultimate situation, if you are a experienced runner and i feel that you are in shape i will try that check test that goes like that
2X2000m/5000m Race Pace + 1X1000m/all out recover=10minutes
This is a perfect check test, that tells me a lot about your chances in a 5000m run
Bravo Antonio, yes you have helped me to understand this idea. You are very generous, thank you.
Mr. Cabral:
Really enjoy our conversation. Thanks for the photos. By the way, guys, it's Seko, not Sato.
Bob Sevene did a great observation after LA Olympics. One word to describe Lopes, he said, is "focus". He knew what he wanted and he knew what needed to be done. He didn't care if he lost to Deek in Rotterdam; he didn't care if he didn't even finish NY marathon. He didn't care about money here and there, running some road races. He ran the second fastest 10k on track but knew he would be running a marathon at the Olympics. Mentality very similar, to me, to that of Lasse Viren.
I also heard Lopes declined to train high atlitide or cooler climate with the national team, opting his home turg. Seko did the same, staying in Tokyo where it's hot and humid but ended up over-training in the condition that was too hot and too humid, urinating blood.
We should talk more; I love Kurosawa, I also have Sakamoto's CD! But recently the one I actually really liked was Tom Cruise's "Last Samurai". Yeah, very Hollywoody, but spot-on. It is loosely based on the historical event on Takamori Saigo. I like the last line by Cruise: "(instead of telling how he died), let me tell you how he lived." That's how I feel about Arthur Lydiard too. By the way, you know Lopes was Lydiard's pick before LA. Everybody said he was too old. Arthur said it was to his advantage, plus his XC performance.
Nobby
I agree with all, except i one point. No chance, you are wrong if you think that Lopes didn´t care about money. Money that´s the only thing that made him run, including so many road runs - because he wins money in road roads.
In 1975 he was ready to give up because the team want to reduce his salary. he himself said in portuguese interviews that he keeps on running and try to delay his career because in the 80s start to have more money envolved in the runs. He simply did try the marathon - that he hates you need to know - he hates the marathon distance, that´s why he did so little marathon 7 in the total of his career and he give up in 3 occasions and ends 4 other occasions - one of them WR and one of them OG winner.
No doubt that what made Lopes to run and compete since young kid that´s simply the money and nothing more but the money. No doubt.
Wow -- you would think that there are easier ways to make some escudos than busting your ass to run 2:07.
bump
on track wrote:
that's not entirely true. i'm coached by jk and he'll have guys run stuff like 3 x 8 minutes (3 minutes r) and 2 x 4k (3-5 minutes r) at faster than 10k race pace. it's not suposed to be where you're tying up but it sure ain't in the comfort zone either. it's more like you've got the edge on and have to concentrate but it's controlled. so you're faster than that good threshold feeling but not hard enough or long enough to get you in real trouble. i'm out of college now and i don't thnk jk thinks its good to do stuff this hard with high school runners very often. while the hard stuff is important i feel i've improved most in the last year by slowing down most of my easy days and runnign more in the base period.
on track, do you live in Texas?
Trackhead
If you try a marathon and you give up as Lopes did in NY, of course that he comes back with less money than if in that same week he would win a cross run or a road run - even a local run.
You are wrong in 3 details: First we haven´t escudos no more, that´s euros our national coin.
Secondly we don´t say "obrigado PARA tudo" but "Obrigado POR tudo". We use PARA when that´s some mouvement idea. I go to Portugal - Eu vou PARA Portugal, but you do a good try, one day you will be better the portuguese than i know english.
Third, ther´s one detail about Lopes wish to win money. I estimate that in 1984 - only in that year he wins 600000 dollares - a lot of money at that time . But some months further up he have nothing, his wife start some business and waist all Lopes money wins. So, it would be easier if he satys at home and save his money !
Antonio,
My apologies on the portuguese -- I just recently bought my first album in portuguese -- some Brasilian Bossa Nova with Antonio Carlos Jobim -- nice stuff, a little bit of English on a few tracks.
How important was winning money to Lopes? Or, if he had been able to do something else to make the same amount or more with less effort than all his training, would he have done it?
Obrigado.
Dopedealer wrote:
One more qoute:
"Just to clarify one point. Do you think i believe Pinto is clear of Drugs? I don´t.
But two mounths ago, a Director of a rival team of Pinto, commenting the absence of Pinto at last world half marathon champ that Pinto say the reason is that he lost identity card and Passport so he can´t go there and compete (!?!?) this team Director goes to portuguese television saying just the same all portuguese runners say open mouth - we don´t believe Pinto is clean of drugs.
What happens? A court process against this Director, the Portuguese Federation came in defense of Pinto dignity, and they need to do a special (!?) surprise EPO test to Pinto to confirm that he was free.
But we still believe he take or had take something to do 2:06:35/27:12/13:01 and 3:37."
Pinto never touched drugs, I mean what was he a 4 cylinder with a gas tank ready to explode??? NO way.
bump
tl;dr
LOL
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year
I’m a D2 female runner. Our coach explicitly told us not to visit LetsRun forums.
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
adizero Road to Records with Yomif Kejelcha, Agnes Ngetich, Hobbs Kessler & many more is Saturday
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Hats off to my dad. He just ran a 1:42 Half Marathon and turns 75 in 2 months!