Genzebe Dibaba 3:55.17 indoor WR

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hhg

6 years ago 02/01/2014 3:00pm CST
re: xly

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xly wrote:

Today's indoor track are very comparable to an outdoor track. On a perfect day, outdoor tracks are quicker - if for no other reason than there are half the curves and a greater percentage of races are on the straight away versus the curves (most indoor tracks have @ 74 meters of straightaway and @ 126 meters of curve per lap). But many days are not perfect outside - meaning the runner has to deal with winds or sometimes less than ideal temperatures. And on those days I think we can say a very good indoor track is better than an outdoor track.

Curves do not slow you down in distance events. Maybe in sprinting but not distance.
Peer Mediator is dumb

6 years ago 02/01/2014 3:05pm CST
re: Peer Mediator

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Peer Mediator wrote:

Converting this to a 3:49 is ridiculous.

No, it makes complete sense when you look at her splits. She obviously could have run at least a few seconds faster without any indoor conversion.
Athletics lover

6 years ago 02/01/2014 3:05pm CST

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G Dibaba improved from last year since she joined Jama Aden's group , this year she is been training with big boys ayanleh Suliman and moustawi
Parental Advisory

6 years ago 02/01/2014 3:07pm CST
re: just sayin

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Not Hermens, Aden...you know, Makloufi's pharmacist.

Contrast her bouncing around after the race with Rupp's post-8:07 sit. She looks like she could run 3:55 all over after a lap jog!
yes there are

6 years ago 02/01/2014 3:12pm CST
re: that guy from Germany

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Women are so noncompetitive. Can you imagine a men's mile where the winner had a 13 second lead?! Ridiculous.
Odds and Ends

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6 years ago 02/01/2014 3:14pm CST

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Incredible.

Good genes are one thing, this performance is bordering on insane. Especially that last 700.

LM

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6 years ago 02/01/2014 3:15pm CST
re: Parental Advisory

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Parental Advisory wrote:

Not Hermens, Aden...you know, Makloufi's pharmacist.

Contrast her bouncing around after the race with Rupp's post-8:07 sit. She looks like she could run 3:55 all over after a lap jog!

She was really running around after she finished. I'd barely call that jogging, it was probably south of 6 min pace.

That said I've never quiet understood the connection between running around at the end of the race and doping. It's not that rare for a runner to have a good race and have a surprising amount of energy left over, especially when they realize they just won a gold or set a WR.

Doesn't mean there can't be something fishy going on...but this seems like one of the least compelling reasons to me for thinking someone is doping.
ventolin^3

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6 years ago 02/01/2014 3:17pm CST
re: Peer Mediator

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Peer Mediator wrote:There is little if any difference between indoor and outdoor tracks

drivel

The spring and banked bends actually enables some to run faster than outdoors

nonsense

name 1 elite who has run faster indoors than out in last 30y from 800 & up

Salazar and several elite runners of late have even stated that some indoor tracks are faster than outdoor ones. They should know, being as they are performing on them at the highest level

eh ???

give me sal's recent indoor/outdoor clockings ???

as for rupp, he is seriously aiming at 3'48i which woud equate to a 3'45/3'46 outdoors which his ageing training partner has already run equivalent of

rupp is/was meant to be mo's = eventually from 1500 - 10k ( within 2s at 10k ) & rupp is bigger/stronger & getting to his target

This 2-3 sec conversion from indoor to outdoor is a nonsense

drivel

hicham in '97 ran 3'31.18iwr

he ran outdoors 3'44.90 !!!

what is converted difference ???

It may have been the case 30 years ago for the old wooden tracks that had little banking, but it is not the case for a modern, top notch indoor track of today

no

the laws of physics cannot be broken

the bends are 1/2 the radius indoors meaning helluva lot more centripetal/centrifugal force/energy to negotiate them, meaning slower indoor times

& if you think iaaf allows better energy return for mondo indoors than out, then you are clueless...

Given the same early pace on an outdoor track today, I seriously doubt Dibaba would have been any faster

no

probably only 1.0 - 1.5s quicker, but that is with pathetic 2'09i to 800

ask your question for full 1500, even with pathetic early pace, it is more like 3s

Converting this to a 3:49 is ridiculous.

no

even soboleva, previous wr holder ran much faster outdoors than indoors

same blinkered thinking which coudn't comprehend mo coud run 3'28...
fred

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6 years ago 02/01/2014 3:23pm CST
re: Parental Advisory

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Yep, lets see the post race workout
ventolin^3

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6 years ago 02/01/2014 3:39pm CST
re: LM

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LM wrote:Everybody in that race looked pretty weak. But they still got a month before they absolutely have to be in good shape

regardless

caleb has run 3'29.5/13'03 last year, capable of 7'28 from calculator & he already has a 7'30pb outdoors

this is not time to be weak as heavy training shouda been already done

plain fact is, indoors is much slower than outdoors, maybe 5s slower for 3k

I definitely accept a couple seconds for pacing, but I'm still unsure what to believe about banked indoor tracks, especially the newer ones with the most modern surfaces

banked is hogwash

they start on level ground for distance races & go up/down

physics tells us they are already at a disadvantage from deviating from complete flat-track all the way

A fair number of notable runners and coaches recently have weighed in on indoor tracks, most saying they think they are of similar speed to outdoor ones, at least until you start to get to well below 60s per lap

yes & no

the advantage for outdoor/indoor lessens with increasing distance because of slower speed of race & lesser rotational forces but will never be equal

a rough prelim for men is :

800 = 1.5 - 1.75s
1500 = 3s
3000 = 5 - 5.5s
5k = 7 - 8s

the proportionate advantage lessens with distance from 800-up, but will never be parity

( trust me, i've looked at the physics & run the indoor/outdoor stats often thru maths software )

I assume you reject that assertion?

yes

For now I'm going with what some of the athletes or coaches say, that the speed is similar..but still open to the idea they don't necessarily have it right. If people like Dibaba start droppin 3:50 outside, or Rupp goes 12:40 low or better that'll probably change my mind a bit the other direction.

see above bulk
trackcoach

6 years ago 02/01/2014 3:41pm CST
re: -

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- wrote:

This is the fastest time indoors or outdoors in 16 years. And she ran it off a pedestrian 2:09 first 800m. She ran the last 600m around 1:31......I honestly have to this is one of the most shocking things I have ever seen in women's running, atleast since Paula's 2:15 marathon. But something seems fishy here, I mean that run just literally seemed unbelieveable, I mean it's just....wow.

Not even close to Paula's 2:15 marathon, the women's 1500 performances over the last decades have been relatively soft. 3:55.17 indoors is big time, but it's about what women should be running when you look at the improvements all of the events over the mile. Also, when you look at Genzebe's age and what she has already run, you had to know she was going to get better just like her sisters did.
[pcl

6 years ago 02/01/2014 3:48pm CST
re: trackcoach

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that is one fit chick... she's probably been logging some monstrous mileage and track work at altitude and then was able to race on a beautiful track.

I didn't get her at 2:09 for 800m, but she did cross at 2:55 with 400m to go.. many of you have the wrong splits. She was running 31-32s from the gun.

hhg

6 years ago 02/01/2014 3:53pm CST
re: ventolin^3

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ventolin^3 wrote:

plain fact is, indoors is much slower than outdoors, maybe 5s slower for 3k

No. You calling it a plain fact doesn't mean that it is actually a plain fact.

Until your opinion is based on some equations of physics, then it is just a weak opinion. An indoor track can be just as fast or faster than an outdoor track. That is a fact and you know it. Whether this particular track is faster, equal, or slower, no one here knows.
corky

6 years ago 02/01/2014 3:53pm CST
re: ventolin^3

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ventolin^3 wrote:

[quote]Peer Mediator wrote:There is little if any difference between indoor and outdoor tracks

drivel

The spring and banked bends actually enables some to run faster than outdoors

nonsense

name 1 elite who has run faster indoors than out in last 30y from 800 & up

quote]

Marcus 3:50.9i v 3:51.6
Peer Mediator

6 years ago 02/01/2014 3:56pm CST
re: ventolin^3

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ventolin^3 wrote:

Peer Mediator wrote:There is little if any difference between indoor and outdoor tracks

drivel

The spring and banked bends actually enables some to run faster than outdoors

nonsense

name 1 elite who has run faster indoors than out in last 30y from 800 & up

Coghlan & Rupp over a Mile. That's 2 names.

The difference between EL G's 3:31 indoors and 3:44 mile outdoors has nothing to do with the speed of the tracks. You wouldn't expect someone like EL G to be at a season peak in Feb would you! You would expect him to be a couple of seconds faster by the peak of the summer season in August. The 3 sec difference is due to 6 months extra training bringing him to a peak.
said88

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6 years ago 02/01/2014 3:56pm CST
re: that guy from Germany

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Wonderful performance.

Her intermediate times are around:

500: 1:18,8
900: 2:24,6
1000: 2:40,0
1100: 2:55,3
1300: 3:25,3

The reported 2:09 for 800m seems to be a little bit strange. She must have slowed down a lot before the 800m mark and accelerated heavily after that mark. Is the time actually true? What a shame to show replays of failed or weak field event attempts while such a race is going on. (Btw, the German commentator actually needed the WR to be announced on the screen to realise that it was a record. Two decades back this same guy sometimes had athletes as winners who didn't even compete in the race. And much more like this...).

Anyway, a wonderful performance. It's really difficult to estimate the difference indoors/outdoors. The stats lead to the conclusion that indoor times are much slower than outdoors. But I doubt this a little bit. There might be a difference, but probably a very small one. The by far most important reason for the much slower indoor times probably is that the indoor season just didn't have the same importance than the outdoor one.
And for the distances from 1500m - 3000m the disadvantage might be the smallest.
If the 800m time of 2:09 is true, she probably could have run actually around 1s faster. Astonishing. But 4:08 for 2nd place? The overall level of the event really isn't very high.
you are insane

6 years ago 02/01/2014 3:58pm CST
re: just sayin

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just sayin wrote:

ventolin^3 wrote:

i have to have a laff !!!

i've been saying for years that women's 1500 was p!ss-weak

not like you to blow your own trumpet!

Ventolin, why are you having a conversation with yourself? We all know "just sayin" is you. You're a f*cking crazy person.
Mark Hansen

6 years ago 02/01/2014 4:22pm CST
re: you are insane

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Can we agree that Jama Aden is the best middle distance coach on the planet currently (or the best one at hiding doping, none of his pupils has ever been caught).

Dibaba
Makhloufi
Souleiman
Kaki
Balla
J.R.

6 years ago 02/01/2014 4:26pm CST
re: that guy from Germany

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that guy from Germany wrote:

400m Roman, Sonja (SLO) 1:02.39
800m Roman, Sonja (SLO) 2:08.96
1200m Dibaba, Genzebe (ETH) 3:10.47

The third 400m was 61.51.
ventolin^3

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6 years ago 02/01/2014 4:26pm CST
re: Peer Mediator

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Peer Mediator wrote:Coghlan & Rupp over a Mile. That's 2 names

nonsense

coghlan was more than 30y ago & he ran uninhibited when running indoors with no ovett/coe to intimidate him

he froze whenever running against the big-2 & never in his 3'49i shape had chance to run a stress free tt outdoors on known euro track

he was good for 3'46/3'47 in '83 if he'd been able to "mo-it", but instead spent his career waiting to try & outkick ovett/coe on the last lap in 2'36/2'37 at bell - complete uselesness

coghlan was similar talent to scott who did run 3'47 when in a solo tt

as for rupp, his outdoor season last year was a disaster, almost certainly carrying some undisclosed injury

you seriously think he was in peak shape with 3'52sb last year !?

The difference between EL G's 3:31 indoors and 3:44 mile outdoors has nothing to do with the speed of the tracks

nonsense

those are hard numbers

it's a converted ~ 3s difference indoors/outdoors

You wouldn't expect someone like EL G to be at a season peak in Feb would you!

nonsense

as far as anyone knows he was in same shape

same as kip with fatigue from previous 1'43.96iwr just 2/7 prior to 1'42.6i was in likely similar shape to his rested 1'41.1wr outdoors

or komen who ran 7'24.9iwr off a pathetic 5'00+

he ran last 1k indoors in 2'24 !!!

he was in likely 7'22i/7'23i shape

this was much, much better shape than when he ran 7'20wr outdoors, probably in 7'17/7'18 region outdoors

offer any sliver of an argument komen was in worse than 7'20 outdoor shape in budapest ???

You would expect him to be a couple of seconds faster by the peak of the summer season in August. The 3 sec difference is due to 6 months extra training bringing him to a peak

nonsense

hicham
kip
komen
borza with 1'42/1'44i

shows you have no basis