actually I was mostly responding to:
"Finally, people like Goucher and Magness either need to come forward or shut up ("like" a comment on FB is chickens*t if you have more information)."
I never said anyone is above suspicion.
I am saying it is "sour grapes" from Virgin because the guy continuously has to bring up himself whenever discussing the sport. It's all about him.
kijhjj wrote:
the virgin fb discussion is getting very good - here's our malmo, giving salazar the benefit of the doubt:
Craig. I talked to Alberto a few months ago. He told me that while RUPP and others have had TUEs in the past, no one in NOP CURRENTLY have any TUEs. Alberto answered any and every question that I asked, to my satisfaction...and I know all of the hard questions.
You have to remember Rupp is a 13:00, 26:48, 3:51 guy. Ask yourself a question -- what exactly kind of workouts are 3:51/13:00/26:48 guys are supposed to be doing -- on a tuned indoor track that didn't even exist when you and I were running? Repeat 4:20 miles with a lot of rest in between? Yawn. They get after in on the last one? Yawn.
Also, there is a fundamental difference in your own training vs Alberto's own, and now his coaching. When you were running your workouts weren't the end-all. They were merely a step towards the races -- that's when you put your game-face on. Alberto the runner had his game-face on in training. As a coach, his runners have their game-faces on in workouts. Different mindset.
Craig. You ran a 4:01 mile. A 13:20 5k and a 27:29 10k. Your training isn't supposed to be like Rupps anymore than a 4:05/14:00/29:00 guy's training is supposed to be like yours. You trained on crappy tracks, the likes that some of this current generation could never even imagine. Rupp-Certified tracks didn't even exist. The Illinois Tartan surface doesn't compare to modern Mondo surfaces. Your diet was classic truck-stop fare - The Farmer's Speacial - bacon, eggs, homefries, short stack of pancakes.
If Rupp ever ate a Farmer's Special his head would explode.
11 minutes ago · Edited · Like
Malley later added this:
"Alberto answered any question that I asked, and even gave me personal information that I didn't need to know. He could be the greatest liar ever known, I'll concede that, but I put him on 91 percent veracity quotient."
Montesquieu wrote:
Last year Rupp was tested 24 times by the US Anti-Doping Agency. Presumably he was also tested by WADA. Let's stipulate, then, that he was tested every two weeks. I could see someone like Armstrong, a bully with clout, manipulating the process, although he came up positive a few times and needed to explain them away. Also, the testing procedures weren't as precise as they are now. I could see someone who is tested, say, only 6 times a year, or maybe even ten, having the process down so pat that he/she could dope and avoid detection. But it seems to me that if one were doping, and one was tested every two weeks, something would show. So I'm interested if someone would attend to this issue. Now, asserting of course it's possible to avoid detection, look at Marion Jones--but that doesn't cut it: different times, different testing procedures, different number of times tested. And also asserting that NOP can do anything they want also doesn't cut it. So, I'm asking how could one cheat the system systematically? Incidentally, by way of comparison, Tyson Gay was tested 10 times last year and he was caught. Also, if Rupp is doping, why did he beat Evan Jager last year by only 1 second in the 5000, when presumably Jager was not doping? Why didn't he crush him?
For what it is worth, others, as well as Armstrong, have stated that the Biological Passport cannot be beaten.
far from truth wrote:
gamer wrote:those are from triathlon and they don't do sh**
Lol, yes, yes. they don't do $hit. which is why nearly every professional team and d1 school uses them, because they don't do anything. No research to back them up.
The Olympic Training Centers have them. They seem to be the authority on knowing what works/doesn't work.
DEREKRUBIS666 wrote:
not many people canrun a 4:01mile. even less can run one after a 8:07 @mile and then 4 previous miles mostly around 4:20 or under. no one can do it clean.
Consider this: When Bekele ran 12:37 he averaged 4:03.6 per mile. That is, he averaged around the same pace for just over 3 miles that Rupp did for 2 miles.
Yes, others could have done this workout.
Why show workouts on flotrack?
We are supposed to see how hard they are working.
Doing a workout after a race?
Sure, there is some solid evidence that this could be useful.
But do you do it after a "run-through" race? Or after an all-out assault on a record? Rupp was after the World Record.
They probably get tested after the American Records. Then what happens between that time and the time they do those awesome post-race workouts?
Something weird about running crazy fast and then showcasing equally amazing post race workouts.
Smokescreen.
tuioq wrote:
Something weird about running crazy fast and then showcasing equally amazing post race workouts.
Smokescreen.
except it wasn't an amazing workout.
4 x mile at 10k pace
1 x mile at 3k pace
with substantial rest
is not amazing. It is very tough.
so what's the big deal?
4:01 in a workout is amazing. No matter who you are.
You forgot to precede with the fact that Rupp pursued a World Record. Not a tune-up. Not a rust-buster. Rupp made an assault on the world record.
Salazar worked with Armstrong.
If he's trying to do something that's never been done before, shouldn't he be doing training that's never been done before?
tuioq wrote:
4:01 in a workout is amazing. No matter who you are.
.
No it isnt. It's slower than he ran in high school. It's 13 s slower than his mile pr.
tuioq wrote:
Salazar worked with Armstrong.
and Mary Slaney
His 7th mile of the evening after a world record attempt? Sure and if elephants were small I could carry a few around in my pocket.
Showcasing the post world record attempt workout is like Armstrong saying "test me; I've never tested positive."
Salazar is not known to be the most public. Now they are happy to run workouts after setting records for the world to see.
Right
13 sec slower than his outdoor mile pr, which I assume happened in a race, not a workout. And he probably didn't run 10k before that mile pr.
Seriously, if Lagat or Bekele or anyone else runs 4:01 in an indoor workout at the end of a session, it would still be extremely impressive.
Now add the 8:07.
tuioq wrote:
Salazar is not known to be the most public.
Not saying NOP doesn't deserve suspicion, but Salazar has been far more open about what his athletes are doing than Schumacher's group.
preach it wrote:
living in reality wrote:Finally, people like Goucher and Magness either need to come forward or shut up ("like" a comment on FB is chickens*t if you have more information).
preach it
I bet they clicked "like" before they clicked and read Virgin's comments in their entirety, as their "likes" appear to now be gone.
As for Magness, I have it from him personally that NOP is clean -- BOTH Rojo and Wejo KNOW this and were cc'd on an email dialogue as was Magness. --They both know they can reach Magness any time they want.
--I also have it from Magness that he was never asked to sign any NDA like agreement between Nike/NOP/Salazar that would preclude him from speaking up. (Whistle-blower laws would provide protection anyway.)
The conspiracy theories on Magness can now stop.
I also knew Craig Virgin, and like him as a person.
It saddens me to see him speculate like this -- sadly websites like this are a bad influence. Presumably Craig could do as Malley, and just pick up the phone and call Alberto and have his questions answered.
As I've stated elsewhere, Alberto used to do workouts after races at Oregon*. As Alberto has documented in a few books and interviews, he pretty much added what he wanted to to the prescribed work at Oregon...resulting in both his success and his undoing.
*Typically Dellinger didn't prescribe workouts after races, if you asked he might recommend some mileage followed by some "30/30's."
upstate guy wrote:
actually I was mostly responding to:
"Finally, people like Goucher and Magness either need to come forward or shut up ("like" a comment on FB is chickens*t if you have more information)."
I never said anyone is above suspicion.
I am saying it is "sour grapes" from Virgin because the guy continuously has to bring up himself whenever discussing the sport. It's all about him.
I wouldn't over read this. I knew Craig back in the day, and have spoken with him over the years at various meets, to me he's a very humble guy. Maybe like many elite athletes there is a bit of "hard to let go, have to inject a little 'me' into it subconsciously."
Lance's coaches said you have C students making test and A+ students making yhe drugs. Of course Rupp is never going to test positive. Is it confirmed saladbar gave Slaney drugs or did she do it on her own. If I'm a 4:20 miler and ran a PR for two miles I probably could not run a 4:33 after that.
RIP: D3 All-American Frank Csorba - who ran 13:56 in March - dead
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
I’m a D2 female runner. Our coach explicitly told us not to visit LetsRun forums.
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion
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