Hi I run a 2:0X 800m and I want you to give me money.
You realize 16 year olds do this all over the country.
Hi I run a 2:0X 800m and I want you to give me money.
You realize 16 year olds do this all over the country.
Bad Wigins wrote:
What is the point of this according to Daniels?
Sit, Kick, Go Ham answered a lot of this but yes really they were strides and they are my repetition pace 200's at my (estimated) current ability of 2:08. If you have either Daniels' check out the repetition training section.
I'm going to modify Daniel's mostly during the Phase III section. His workouts at fast pace are a bit too jumpy in terms of the different distances, I prefer simple 12x400, 24x200 etc.
Yeah man keep posting here, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out for the both of us. You wouldn't happen to be racing in So Cal would you?
The Guru Matt James wrote:
So wait, you want us to give you money for being slow? I gotta say, I really like the attempt. I hope some schmuck pays you at least $10 so you can go buy a 30 of keystone for your effort.
Well I know someone who I won't be sharing a Keystone with.
Scam_artist wrote:
Hi I run a 2:0X 800m and I want you to give me money.
You realize 16 year olds do this all over the country.
It's not just about the money, it's about sending a message (I realize I'm quoting the Joker here).
I also realize where I stand in the grand spectrum of people that run T&F but you'll never be satisfied by constantly comparing yourself to what other people have accomplished. I want to do fine by me and fulfill my potential and a goal I've had for almost a decade.
If I can give back to a sport I love so much in the process then that's another huge plus. I don't like hearing about our athletes struggling to find sponsors. I'm making my life publicly available to watch so that someone can reference it and be like "hey this guy who is essentially a nobody can run with multiple sponsors on his singlet then why can't our Olympic silver medalist Leo Manzano?"
I ran 1:59.22 back in 2012. I was never above 35 mpw, and somehow I did it on a bum hamstring. Here are my other marks from the season:
5k: 17:44 (one week before the sub 2)
10k: 38:22
1500: 4:22 (about a month before sub 2)
Mile: 4:42
400: 56 (time trial by myself a few days after the sub 2)
I guess my point is you don't need excellent speed or excellent endurance to go sub-2. You need really good speed endurance. I'd say cut back on mileage and do more reps at 400m, 800m, and 1500m pace and cut out tempo runs and long runs.
If you want I still have my logs from when I built up to the sub 2 if you want to see them.
Your marks are really interesting. Particularly since you ran a semi decent 1500/Mile off of a low aerobic base. Considering you broke 2 I'm sure you would have ran a lot faster open 400 in a race situation.
Yeah man send em to me. You can email em' or share them via Google Docs if you want.
Since this is letsrun I gotta ask "did you look relaxed"? Haha
Not a chance, cause he was running on pure hate.
Scott Cook wrote:
Since this is letsrun I gotta ask "did you look relaxed"? Haha
Nah, I'll be racing in Ohio. Most of my workouts are going to be on the treadmill for a while except in certain cases where an outdoor track clears up.
Mileage really isn't necessary as you can see from my training logs. I ran around 20 mpw the season I went 1:58 and around 25-30 mpw when I went 1:56. I upped my mileage to what I usually did for xc season in college because it'll be much easier to develop my speed endurance than to try and run sub 50 in the 400m.
Phase III will be a period of hard training, and I'm almost glad I don't have any races planned for that period because of the intensity.
So research by Runnersworld of newspaper reports put the number of fatalties in the US in 2009 at 24 (20 per 10 months extrapolated).
http://www.runnersworld.com/running-tips/collision-course?page=single
Running USA put the number of runners in 2010 at 12.9 million (assuming some growth from 2009, let's call the 2009 number 10 million).
Therefore, your annualized risk of being killed as a runner in 2009 appears to have been somewhere in the neighborhood of 40/10,000,000, or 1/250,000.
As a point of comparison, your chances of being struck by lightning in any given year is about 1/500,000.
Obviously, mitigation efforts would likely bring down both stats significantly, but do not entirely eliminate them.
Also, obviously, a one-year sample is small, it is not broken down by runs (running more exposes you to more risk), etc. But, it's a decent snapshot estimate.
Rather than telling people how to live and what choices to make (which is appropriate in some scenarios where their choices endanger others, but not here where they are making personal choices), the right thing to do is give people information so that they can make informed choices, mitigate risk, and then balance that mitigated risk of being struck against other considerations (availability of other options, time considerations, importance of the training etc.)
Nothing wrong with Flagpole raising the issue, but hyperbole such as "suicide" doesn't help anyone make informed choices.
Sorry guys - wrong thread. Not sure how that happened.
Training Updates for Jan 28. Here's a video describing how the race went this weekend at Cal State Northridge as well as updates to my training:
It seems biweekly videos are what's going to be the easiest for me to post.
This was my training for the week of 1/19/14
Mon: 2 mi wu, 4x200 @ :36 w/1.5 min rest, 4x400 @ :72-73 w/2-3 min rest, 4x200 @ :36 w/1.5 min rest. 10 min cool down
Tues: 6 min E, 20 Mins core, Afternoon 3 mi easy 6x200 w/spikes
Weds: 2 mi wu, 3 mi tempo @ 6-6:12 pace, 2 mi wd
Th: 6 mi E, 20 mins core
Fri : 6 mi E
Sat: Race. Mile in 4:43. 400m in :57
Sun: 10 mi E
Weekly Total: 46-50 miles
and now this week (1/26/14) it's
Mon: 6 mi E, 20 mins CORE
Tues: 2 mi wu, 4x200 @ :35-36 w/1.5 min rest,5-6x1000 @ 3:50 w/1.5 min rest, 4x200 @ :35-36 w/ 1.5 min rest, 1-2 mi wd
Weds: 6 mi E, 20 mins CORE
Th: 2-3 mi wu, 10 FAST SHORT HILL REPEATS, 1-2 mi wd
Fri : 6 mi E, 20 mins core
Sat: 6-7 mi E, 10x100m strides, last few relaxed sprint build up, no red lining. 20 mins Core optional.
Sun: 10 mi E
Weekly Total: 46-50 miles
It seems Canadian athletes are doing this:
HardLoper wrote:
It seems Canadian athletes are doing this:
https://pursu.it/
This is awesome HardLoper! Thanks for the link. Definitely the kind of thing I'm going for.
Also I'm entering Phase III of Daniels program and his (F)ast pace workouts are, in my opinion, too messy and jumpy. So I adjusted those workouts a bit and would like to know your guys thoughts.
Mon: 20 min wu, 4x200 @ :36, 6x1000 @ 3:20-3:25 w/2.5 min rest, 4x200 @ :36, 10-15 min wd
Tues: 5-6 mi E, 20 mins core, 10x100m FAST strides.
Weds: 6-7 mi
Th: 20 min wu, 4x200 @ :36, 10x200 @ :31-:32 w/2 min rest/jog, 4x200 @ :36, 10-15 min wd
Fri: 6-7 mi Recovery
Sat: 6 mi E, 20 mins core
Sun: Long run. 10 miles. 8x200m strides @ :36.
Weekly Total: 46-50 miles
I'm basing this off of my 4:43 mile a few weeks ago, I'm fairly certain I'm in 2:06-08 shape.
Training looks good. I would advise against ending an F pace workout with R pace reps. If anything I would add a couple 100's or 150's at closer to 400m speed, but finishing slower than the bulk of the workout just doesn't sit well in my mind.
I've only run 4:50 and 2:09 so far, but here's my week going into the double (ran 4:51 in the double).
Sunday - 2 hours long run ~14-15 miles
Monday - Off
Tuesday - 2x800m in 2:20, 2x600m in 1:43, 2x400m in 66, 2x200m in 32, equal jog recovery between reps
Wednesday - 6 miles
Thursday - 4 miles tempo in 23:55
Friday - 5 miles with a brief 2 minutes at tempo pace near the end
Saturday - Mile in 4:51, 800m in 2:09, 4x200m in 35, 32, 31, 30, equal jog recovery between repeats
This was 2 weeks ago. Considering all my training has been on the treadmill except for my long runs I was pretty happy with the effort. My biggest problem is pure speed at the moment. I stuck my nose in the 800 and pulled through ok, but until that race I hadn't run that fast for 200, 400, or 600 in well over a year. Once the snow melts and I can get on a track I will hopefully have enough time left in the season to get some 400m pace stuff in. I have 2 workouts I really want to get in during this phase in replace of race efforts.
2x450m @ 95% with 10 min recovery
400m, 200m, 200m with 20s between the 400 and 200, 10s between the 200's
I've said this before, but what you're describing is a classic long to short preparation. Maybe that works for you.
However, to run a fast 800, you will need your 200 and 400 to be good. What do you need to do in base to be running fast 200s and 400s in track season?
I think that's the question you need to be asking yourself.
I'd suggest training with a sprint group once a week. Pick the session that will best suit you. It might be drills, hills, steps, resistance, plyos, core, flying 40s, 80s etc.
I personally ran a sub-2 once, off sprint and jumps training. No mileage at all, though I was always naturally pretty fit.
I also think there is benefit in doing some form of speed endurance in base, to prepare your mind and memory for it as for physiological reasons. My preference is a heap of diagnonals once every 2-3 weeks, or alternatively shore recovery 200s instead, but at 31-32 speed, in spikes or racing flats.
Karma Police wrote:
I've said this before, but what you're describing is a classic long to short preparation. Maybe that works for you.
However, to run a fast 800, you will need your 200 and 400 to be good. What do you need to do in base to be running fast 200s and 400s in track season?
I think that's the question you need to be asking yourself.
I'd suggest training with a sprint group once a week. Pick the session that will best suit you. It might be drills, hills, steps, resistance, plyos, core, flying 40s, 80s etc.
I personally ran a sub-2 once, off sprint and jumps training. No mileage at all, though I was always naturally pretty fit.
I also think there is benefit in doing some form of speed endurance in base, to prepare your mind and memory for it as for physiological reasons. My preference is a heap of diagnonals once every 2-3 weeks, or alternatively shore recovery 200s instead, but at 31-32 speed, in spikes or racing flats.
I agree. You need to do pure speed work. You need to be fast enough that running a 28/29s 200 feels smooth. From your training, it seems you're lacking speed.
Keenan Win wrote:
Your PR's are very similar to mine but mine were all in my early 40's. Keep foremost in your mind that if you are serious about sub-2:00 you will have to be able to run 53 at least for 400. Take a look at this for some reference:
http://www.usatf.org/groups/Coaches/library/2007/Sprint%20Training/Clyde_Hart3.pdfYour 800 is by far your best mark, so at least you are focusing on the right event. Do you have access to lots of races (preferably small college/all-comer's meets)?
Doesn't need 53 speed to run sub 2. Probably can get it done with as slow as 56 low.
53 speed is flirting with enough speed to run sub 4 in the mile, which obviously takes way better than 2:00 800 ability.
Do agree that speed focus is what you need the most, though you do have the speed for it in general with 54/55 speed. Getting to where you can run controlled 28s for 200 will definitely help.
I'm an old marathoner 2:43 PR with 2:05 HS 880 PR. Your 36 second 200's don't make sense. Like someone else said, you need to be doing a lot of 28-29 200's for sub two minutes to even be in the picture. Think 12 X 200 with 200 jog.
That's the problem with following a Daniel's style plan. Nothing outlined in the plan is faster than race pace. It assumes you have the natural speed to run the event and focuses on you enduring through it. Pure speed is something that should be worked on, which it looks like he's done through the use of fast strides as long as they're faster than F pace.
The 36s 200's made sense during phase 2 because it was still a base type period, but in phase 3/4 it makes more sense to start at R pace and work down to F pace during the workout instead of running all of them at one speed or the other.
I forgot to mention this. You're supposed to drop your R pace times by 1s per 200 when you go from phase 2 to phase 3, and again from phase 3 to phase 4 if you haven't run a race equivalent. So right now you should be running at least 35s per R pace 200 instead of 36.
Personally, I think the 800m Daniel's plan is much better suited towards the 1500/1600 because of the faster pace work.
Sit, Kick, Go Ham wrote:
That's the problem with following a Daniel's style plan. Nothing outlined in the plan is faster than race pace. It assumes you have the natural speed to run the event and focuses on you enduring through it. Pure speed is something that should be worked on, which it looks like he's done through the use of fast strides as long as they're faster than F pace.
The 36s 200's made sense during phase 2 because it was still a base type period, but in phase 3/4 it makes more sense to start at R pace and work down to F pace during the workout instead of running all of them at one speed or the other.
I forgot to mention this. You're supposed to drop your R pace times by 1s per 200 when you go from phase 2 to phase 3, and again from phase 3 to phase 4 if you haven't run a race equivalent. So right now you should be running at least 35s per R pace 200 instead of 36.
Personally, I think the 800m Daniel's plan is much better suited towards the 1500/1600 because of the faster pace work.
I think 800m runners should be doing raw speed work early on. They need to do short fast sprints (50-150m) early and off season.