I'm amazed at how many people still think you can just jump up and down on a treadmill instead of running.

webfoot wrote:

Good grief. Think about what you just wrote. Ya think there might be a correlation between your higher heart rate and running faster on a treadmill versus outside?

Haha, nice. No kidding.

OP, you're correct - are you on Reddit? This exact argument came up again today. It really is astounding how confident people are on their terrible physics.

Charlie Freak wrote:

What's amazing is how the brojos have it going on with the advertising on this site now. Click on a thread about treadmills and treadmill advertisments pop up at the bottom of the page. Impressive.

Wow, automatically targeted ads based on the content of the webpage! We are living in the future!

your an idiot wrote:

Time in the air is what matters on a treadmill. That's very different from distance covered.

It's fitting that you can't even spell your own handle.

Hardloper wrote:

OP, you're correct - are you on Reddit? This exact argument came up again today. It really is astounding how confident people are on their terrible physics.

Busted

physics wrote:

Yes you are wrong about both situations (unless you and the carpet guy have the same stride length). I don't see why you'd think the situations are anything alike. In one, the ground is going with you. In the other, the ground is going against you.

The similarity I was thinking of was that in both cases the "ground" moves, but I clearly wasn't thinking about direction which is a big issue as in one the ground is moving in the direction you're trying to go and in the other it isn't. The more I think about it, I see that on a treadmill if your legs aren't moving at the pace of the belt, you're going to fall off, so other than moving from front to back on the treadmill you have to run at the pace of the belt. Everyone I've ever talked to seems to think a treadmill is easier, but maybe that's more feeling versus ease in running.

[quote]Clam Evans wrote:

The only difference between running on a good treadmill and running on the road is air resistance.quote]

I ran 7 miles yesterday with a 14 mile wind at my back. Of course I didn't count that in my weekly mileage as it is too similar to running on a treadmill.

I did count 3 of the seven miles against the wind. The first 4 I didn't quite get under 7 minute pace so I didn't count that either.

The AMAZING physics fact that I did not know is this: EVERY runner (fastest sprinter to little old lady) spends EXACTLY the same time in the air between steps (.3 of a second)! I saw this on a NOVA show. The way to speed up is to run MORE UPRIGHT so your knees are closer together.

Brian wrote:

There is clearly less toe-off required on a treadmill than on the roads. I had a double cheilectomy and treadmill running is about half as painful as running on the roads. I can run significantly faster and get my HR higher on the mill. Mill also makes heel strikers faster than they should be.

No. Running on the treadmill is no different than running outside. It's psychologically easier because you don't have to consciously maintain pace. Other than that and a very minor effect of air resistance, treadmill running is the same. It has absolutely no special effect on heel strikers.

Super Jay Five wrote:

The AMAZING physics fact that I did not know is this: EVERY runner (fastest sprinter to little old lady) spends EXACTLY the same time in the air between steps (.3 of a second)! I saw this on a NOVA show. The way to speed up is to run MORE UPRIGHT so your knees are closer together.

Please tell me you're joking about this being on NOVA

I had no trouble with 6 miles at 5 minute pace basically just jumping up and down on the treadmill.

Next week I'm going to try it in the middle on the belt.

kkks wrote:

No. Running on the treadmill is no different than running outside. It's psychologically easier because you don't have to consciously maintain pace. Other than that and a very minor effect of air resistance, treadmill running is the same. It has absolutely no special effect on heel strikers.

You're preaching to the choir here, but the effect of air resistance can be significant enough. Running at 12 mph would be the same as a 12 mph tailwind, almost 3 times what's allowed for a legal sprint. Not significant on an easy day, but I bet most people could take a chunk off their PRs on a treadmill.

A few winters ago I did most of my training on a treadmill. The few days i did run outside i found that my usual treadmill pace was much easier outside. I think the treadmill forces quicker turnover and can be beneficial to some runners who struggle with a slower cadence.

Hardloper wrote:

[quote]kkks wrote:

Not significant on an easy day, but I bet most people could take a chunk off their PRs on a treadmill.

Unless you were trying to run a half marathon, the room was 72°, the humidity was 94%, and there were no fans blowing on you.

+1 to kkks.

I'd also argue that the lack of air resistance (e.g. wind) reduces heat flow from the body, which makes it harder to regulate body temperature on the treadmill. In my humble opinion, treadmill miles count as outside miles without any correction whatsoever because of the benefits/costs of air resistance.

I'd argue that treadmill running makes more sense for long distance training. Impact is greatly reduced, I can always hit my target paces without having to worry about it, and if I'm having a bad day or something feels out of whack, I don't need to run through it or hobble home 5 miles, but rather, I just shut down the treadmill and hit the showers. It's always light on the treadmill, it's never raining, I don't have to worry about falling on ice, or rolling an ankle in a pothole, or pulling a muscle in the cold.

I do most of my running on a treadmill and go outside for 2-3 runs a week. Just my thoughts. 14 minute 5k guy for what it's worth.

Some of you are assuming your 'mills are calibrated perfectly. I'm not sure this is always the case...either way, assuming equal effort, treadmill running is a good approximation of running outside, but it is always in a straight line and up hills are easier to find than downs.

I also think that some early spring treadmill tempo runs in sweats will prepare you better for races on warm days (like if your spring marathon ends up on a warm day).

I should add that I haven't run on a treadmill for about 19 months!

physics wrote:

coach wrote:

At every clinic I've gone to the world class sprint coaches (not as knowledgeable as you letsrun posters) have advocated against running on a treadmill.

Probably because you can't sprint on a treadmill.

Are you sure about that?

A bunch of folks have been sprinting on high speed treadmills. In addition to NFL guys (more and more of them) like Chad Johnson here, Derrick Atkins, Dallas Robinson a couple of years ago. I've done it myself at Athletics Republic, and it's a bit scary the first couple of times (you only stay up there for a couple of seconds, which is how you do speed development anyway), but it seems to work.

I've always found that my treadmill tempos are significantly faster than outdoor tempos. The wind resistance matters more the faster you're going Cooling can be a little annoying, but two things: if it's winter, it's a VERY dry heat (low humidity), 2nd, it's at 72 degrees at most. The heat isn't really an issue.

Just checked my logs out of curiousity, and it looks like ~20 seconds difference for my 5 mile tempos.

Ho Hum wrote:

I've always found that my treadmill tempos are significantly faster than outdoor tempos. The wind resistance matters more the faster you're going Cooling can be a little annoying, but two things: if it's winter, it's a VERY dry heat (low humidity), 2nd, it's at 72 degrees at most. The heat isn't really an issue.

Just checked my logs out of curiousity, and it looks like ~20 seconds difference for my 5 mile tempos.

My experience is the opposite. I suspect your treadmill is calibrated incorrectly.

Treadmill runner wrote:

A few winters ago I did most of my training on a treadmill. The few days i did run outside i found that my usual treadmill pace was much easier outside. I think the treadmill forces quicker turnover and can be beneficial to some runners who struggle with a slower cadence.

How would the lack of air resistance, the only difference between treadmill and outdoors, force quicker turnover?