Road Racing and Training Thread - Week ending 10/20/13

Howdy all. Hope everyone's training has been going well.

NEXT RACE - Bonfield express 5k (thanksgiving

GOALS - A - sub 17:30 B - sub 17:45 C- PR (sub 17:53)

Surprisingly, I managed to stay off the 'crete for a whole week! I did a lot of staying up too late/drinking/catching up with the girlfriend after ignoring her too much during training/generally enjoying not running 85 miles a week.

Mon- off

tues- off

weds- 1-2 mile walk

thurs - off

fri- bike 40-50 miles

sat- bike 30-50 miles

sun- bike 20-30 miles

Next week I plan on doing about 30-40 miles with the following workout thursday morning -

5 x (5 x 200m @ 5K pace) with 30-second rests between repeats and 3 minutes rest between sets

Too much 11 days after a marathon? After that I plan on doing a 3-5 mile tempo every tuesday and an increasing length 5k workout every thursday until the race, gradually rebuilding to about 70-80 miles in singles with a 15-18 mile long run on the weekends.

king HJ

normally i'd say any workout 11 days post marathon is too much, but that one seems really easy. easy but boring, so i doubt you'll finish it. don't sweat it if you bail halfway...your body needs to recover fully before it will make any decent gains.

i think you'd be better off doing strides after most runs, maybe some diagonals here and there as faux speedwork until you feel up to real stuff

by the way, i hadn't posted my goals for my post above

goals: sub 26 8k (not gonna happen this year, no more flat races) and 70 mpw avg (will be tough but i'll at least avg 68-69)

i have another 8k, hilly this time, in 2 weeks. goal there is to place highly, maybe top 5 or top 10

Goal - PR in the 5K this fall

Next Race - 5k on 11/10

M – 10

T – 14 - Interval workout

W – 10.5

T – 15 - Threshold workout

F – Off (planned)

S – 11.5 - Mixed repetition/interval workout

S – 20

Total Mileage – 81

Tuesday's interval workout:

3 mile warm-up/3 mile cool down

8 x [600m with 200m recovery, 400m with 100m recovery, 200m with 100m recovery] - averaged 1:45 for the 600s, 70 for the 400s, and 35 for the 200s

Thursday's threshold workout:

3 mile warm-up/3 mile cool down

4 x 3200m with 400m recovery (2:00) - 10:27, 10:24, 10:24, 10:23

Saturday's mixed repetition/interval workout:

3.5 mile warm-up/3 mile cool down

4 x 200m with 200m recovery (~65) - 29, 31, 31, 30

3 x 1000m with 400m* recovery (~1:59) - 2:57, 3:00, 3:01

2 x 400m with 400m recovery (~2:09) - 64, 63

*Took 600m recovery after the last 1000m. I was a little disappointed on the latter two of the 1000s, but realize that I ran the previous 200s a little too quickly. They should've been more around 32/33. Even as I get older, I still seem to make the same amateur mistakes. One day I'll learn!

The Stone Cutter - still got some good mileage in last week for 3 days. It sounds like you are working out your schedule and I hope to see you keep posting here. Your advice has helped me a lot since I started posting last winter.

reed- Great time in the 8k race and nice week with your times/mileage. I struggle with the same thing that you mentioned I lack an ability to push through pain from mental standpoint, especially in the shorter races where you are racing at max. Any tips you or others like to share?

King hobbyjogger- I would go more by feel but think 11 days may be a little close to start layering back in speed work. I plan to keep my mileage in the E zone for another week. I do agree with reed that 5x200 is pretty short so you can bail if the workout doesnt go well at the start.

NJ Truth-That Thursday workout looks brutal. Awesome job and week overall. Was this a step back week in terms of mileage for you or are you cutting back from now until the 5k in a few weeks as part of a taper?

Race: Woodlands Marathon - 3/1/2014

Goal: ?????

Seeing some really strong training weeks!

I had an easier week on paper and probably underestimated my workouts. In returned they punished me. I managed to grind through them but it hurt.

Mon: 10 miles easy on trails

Tue: 20 miles at 7:10 pace

Wed: 11 miles w/ workout on the road: 5x1k in 3:07 avg w/ 2 min jog rec then 6x400 in 69 avg with 3 min jog rec.

Thu: 10 miles at 6:45 pace

Fri: 7 miles at 6:55 pace

Sat: 19 miles w/ workout: 2m WU, 3 mile tempo (5:23, 5:19, 5:25), 9 miles at 6:25 pace, 3 mile tempo (5:27, 5:26, 5:23), 2m CD.

Sun: OFF

Total: 77

Have some comments but will list them in a different post below.

Oh I didn't note I signed up for the publix marathon in Ga in march. My training is going really well(minus the race yest) so I'm excited. I train well through the winter, but summers are hell here.

cmm268 - nice recovery week. Enjoy the lower mileage for now - you've earned it! The grind will be starting up soon enough.

RunnersFix - Really strong workouts - especially on hilly routes. I particularly like that you take your easy days EASY and incorporate strides and weights. Then you come back and crush the workouts. Also noticed this is the second week in a row that you progressed the last few miles of your long run. Is this something you plan or do you usually just go by feel?

renewed - Nice job on the Monday workout. You know your in shape - just need to keep that calf under control.

Forcerunner - Another solid week with great workouts and I especially like you're doubling schedule. A lot of people get hung up on singles but there's something to be said about a good frequency of runs. How are you finding the schedule without a defined longer run. What are you training for?

Slartzio - I know what you mean though about starting out too fast on reps. I really try to take extra focus in starting out and building into it. Despite this I rarely, if ever, start out too slow so try hold yourself back early on in reps.

NP1112 - That's an animal of a week - especially the weekend. Really nice job. Good workout on Wednesday as well. How are the legs feeling after 40+ miles in two days?

xenonscreams - Good work on the race. It may not have been as fast as you wanted but you cant argue with 25 seconds faster than last year - Definitely heading in the right direction. Make sure and take care of all the maintenance stuff as you've still got a long season ahead and staying healthy is #1.

GarbageDisposal - Nice race man. Amazing what getting into a race atmosphere and letting the competitive drive take over can do. Keep the progression going over the next 4 weeks, eat healthy, and hit that sub 1:09. Routing for you.

Ramanujan - I'm fine with picking it up a bit at the end. It's really a balancing act. You don't want to completely bury yourself every single workout - run smart. At the same time, if you feel good on a certain day there's nothing wrong with cashing in on, picking it up slightly, and going with it.

Ghola - Nice week and good job coming back strong. I'm a fan of the hill sprints - is this something you incorporate every week or was it just a one off? Good luck on your race next week.

StoneCutter - 31 miles in 3 days is solid. a couple more runs and you've got a good week. It won't take TOO much more. Will hopefully see you posting your week soon.

reed - Happy 21st birthday! You're clearly fit and able to run 25:50. If you are closing out the last mile like that there is more in the tank. Like you said, maybe you need to get yourself in the mix just a little bit more and get out a little bit quicker. Visualizing different scenarios in the race before hand is something that helped me throughout the grind of the race, but I understand that may not work for everyone. Keep the training up and stay positive. For example, its easy to get down on yourself in a race when the hurt/lactic acid build-up comes. Instead of that, welcome it. You know you'll have to go through it at some point so why not use it as a positive towards reaching your goal rather than thinking "oh shit, here we go again". I wouldn't stress too much about time in XC anyway - there are too many variables. Like you said just get out there and place well then throw up the times post-season on the road or come track season.

King Hobbyjogger - Agree with reed. I'd be leaning towards doing some strides and giving your body a chance to bounce back before doing 200s. Everyone is different though and no one knows your body better than you.

NJ Truth - Really strong week. 3 workouts and a 20 mile long run is no joke. Looking forward to seeing what you run in a few weeks.

Goal Race: Boston Marathon

M: 5miles

T: 5miles (medium effort)

W: 5miles

T: 5miles (medium effort)

F: 4miles

S: 7miles (medium effort)

S: 7miles

38miles for the week

Flying Kilt- Thanks man! For my long runs, I like to get a little more out of them that's why I do the progression. Once I hit 20 miles for my long run ill progressed the last 10 miles at around 5:40-5:45 pace. But yeah, it's planned. If I'm feeling like crap I'll just do less miles progressing.

CMM268- Are you using a modified version of one of Pfitzinger's back-to-back marathon schedules by any chance? That's a pretty solid week right after a marathon PR, so I am thinking you definitely have more in the tank. (and losing the extra few lbs can't hurt right?)

As for my race, I think it was roughly a negative split by over a minute as I was running about 5:55-6s on the way out and averaged 5:43s for the last 10K. I think overall it was just satisfying to finally execute my race plan for once and also to have that "hanging on by a thread" feeling for the last 5-6 miles.

Runnersfx- Damn that's a flying mile repeats workout. Really nice to see you slowly crank up the pace after each repeat as well.

renewed marathoner- I would say the last 13.1 of your Monday run is a much better indicator of your marathon fitness than your race on Sunday (which is most likely an off day as you said). If anything the combination of your calf issues and the effort from Monday probably prevented you from showing your full fitness on Sunday. Keep up the good work.

Forcerunner- I really like how you just put week after week of solid, consistent training but always seem to show the discipline to never go all-out in a workout. You seem to really exemplify the saying "train don't strain". Hope more of that rubs off on me.

Slartzio- Nice week man. I hear ya on the workout on Tuesday. At least it seems like you weren't any worse for the wear the rest of the week though

NP1112- Looks like your rest week last week just made you itching to get back into it. I know you're training for a 50, but that run on Saturday shows that you should be able to knock out a solid PR in the half (even if you train through it) if you find a decent one around you.

Xenoscreams- Solid week and keep up the good work. Hope you get in some solid hill work and improve your time in a couple of weeks.

Ramanujan- Your goal races are in the spring right? I think the type of workouts you are running as well as the intensity level is just perfect for this time of the year. I might throw in some longer strength work as you are still in your base phase. (something like a 10K or 10-mile race at 90-95% effort). Keep up the good work.

Ghola-Welcome back man. Hope you are back in the swing of things and we'll be seeing more of you in here. Good luck this weekend.

Stone Cutter- Thanks man, I'll echo some others here as well that I hope you will be able to figure your schedule out, as you have been a solid contributor to this thread and a motivating source for all of us.

Reed- When I was in mid-32 10K shape (and came through the 8K mark of my 10K PR race in 25:5x), I would've had trouble doing some of the workouts you have been doing lately, so I definitely agree with you that you should be running mid-25s. It seems like you might just not be "race sharp" yet, so keep finding fast races with decent competition and go after it and you should pop a huge PR soon. (I know you said there are no more flat races in a later post... but where are you located? It's hard to believe you won't be able to find one with all the turkey trots coming up in a month)

King Hobbyjogger- Nice recovery week man. My only advice is that you should only do that speed workout if you feel completely recovered and don't feel any lingering effects of the marathon. It's hard to say whether 11 days is too soon as each person is different, and heck, each marathon is different. There were some marathons I finished where I was running tempo workout the following weekend, and ones where I needed 2-3 weeks of rest/easy running to feel normal again. Maybe just err on the side of caution as you are definitely fit, and another week or two of easy running won't prevent you from hitting your goals for a 5K in 5-6 weeks.

[by]NJ Truth- Dude, didn't you just run a PR in the half last weekend? Definitely doesn't seem like you're any worse for the wear.

Flying Kilt- Thanks for the vote of confidence, and for what it's worth you're putting up workouts that I would have been having trouble hitting when I was in 70:xx/low-2:30s shape so I am guessing you are probably shooting for something in the 2:20s but just want to wait a few weeks before you put a goal time on paper?

Green Bank- Welcome man. There's quite a few of us running Boston in the spring as well so hope you stick around. Got a goal time?

Sorry for the late posting. I had to make an unscheduled trip down to Florida last night.

My Week:

M: Rest

T: 1 hour bike trainer workout. + 7.0 easy miles (7:47/mi).

W: 14.2 miles (7:46/mi.) with 3 strong Strava segments @ 5k pace.

T: 1 hour bike trainer workout + 4.0 really easy miles (9:46/mi)

F: 12.4 miles (7:29/mi). Two 2.1 miles segments @ 6:17/mi.

S: 8.5 miles (7:15/mi.)

S 13.1 race (1:26:01) + 3.5 mile warm-up & cool-down.

Total: 62.7 miles + 2 hours on the bike trainer.

Sunday's race started out really well. I went thru 10k at 39:00 and felt strong. However, this course was backloaded with about 8-10 sharp hills and my pace suffered accordingly. Everyone else had the same issues. I think I was passed by 4 people and passed 1 during the final 10k.

I ended up finishing 18th out of 2300+ and first 45-49. Since my upcoming marathon is very flat, I'll take it.

cmm268 - Nice week. Good long run too!

RunnersFix - Great week man. Both of your workouts look awesome.

Renewed - Nice close to your Monday run. With a month of training under your belt you'll be sitting pretty for the full.

Slartzio - Nice week! Good moderate section to your long run.

Np1112 - Solid solid week. Crazy mileage on the weekend!

Xenon - Nice workout on Wednesday and nice race for the terrain!

GarbageDisposal - Great race report. Congrats on the performance.

Ramanujan - Nice week. Solid volume on the Monday workout.

Ghola - I like the long run! Looking forward to seeing some good training.

StoneCutter - Hoping to see some solid weeks again soon!

Reed - Nice race man. Happy birthday too!

KingHobbyjogger - Good recovery week! About your workout next week, would advise you to switch directions or run it on grass somewhere. Jumping on the track and running that much even if its easy running might be hard on your legs and hips.

NJ Truth - Great consitency on the threshold workout! And man your legs must have been feeling a little heavy after those 200s to open up! Nice week.

Flying Kilt - Nice volume on 6 days! That Wednesday workout looks solid as well as the tempo on Saturday. One thing I'm trying to establish this training cycle is a regular long run, but I didn't do one last week because my back felt a little iffy when I started. My main goal right now is a 10k on thanksgiving that I will hopefully run close to 31:15 in. We'll see!

Green Bank - Nice week. Do you just run medium effort from the start or do you gradually work into it?

thegarbagedisposal: yeah, my goal race is in march/april. it'll probably take a couple of tries to get used to a track 5000m, but i think right now my training is going splendid. what other long strength work would you recommend? and at what pace? marathon, half, etc. i'm loosely based on jack daniels' vdot calc for most paces, but my vdot seems to be increasing steadily.

garbageman

there are turkey trots, yeah, but the competition is much worse than an xc race.

if i go to my family in redding, ca for thanksgiving, i'll do a somewhat hilly 6 mile race. last year it was quite competitive (or a short course) with guys running low 31 for 6 miles, and some depth with a few more guys in the 5:15-5:25 range

i'll do that race...but i'm worried because 2 years ago it was won in 33 minutes...and once in 36...anyway, i'll shoot for 5:16-5:19/mi and possibly try to split a 8k PR. rolling hill course but nice, paved bike trail

cmm268- My mileage will slowly increase every 9 days by 1 mile per day. For example:

1. 8....9

2. 8....9

3. 9....10

4. 8....9

5. 8....9

6. 9....10

7. 8....9

8. 8....9

9. 14....15

I follow 9 day cycles ^^^ Ill peak at 115mpw 4 weeks out from race. Until then its a slow build up. I don't doing recovery weeks because of how slowly it builds.

Printer- Solid week man and sounds like you probably ran a fairly even effort given the way the course was set up. Congrats on the AG win! Gotta feel pretty good 6-7 weeks out right?

Ramanujan- I base a lot of my training on Daniels/VDOT as well. I think in the section on marathon pace he talked about how it's good to do some runs at that pace even if you are not training for a marathon. Last spring/summer when I was mainly focused on improving my 5K/10K times I was still running the last 5-8 miles of my long runs at marathon pace to work on my strength. Every 2 weeks I would also do a tempo/LT session like 3x2 miles, 2x2 miles, or 5 mile tempo. (similar to that 2x2 mile workout you did). I guess if you feel like 6-min pace for your 2-mile intervals is your current tempo pace, maybe just keep doing that workout every week or two and your body should adjust and progressively get faster. (ultimately you want to be running 5:30-5:35 pace to be in about 16:00 5K shape).

Reed- Are you in the Northern California region then? I have a buddy out in Sacramento so I follow the racing scene out there a little bit. There's a 10K at the end of November that's pretty quick. (usually won in the low-mid 30s the last few years) and you could probably get dragged along to a sub-26 8k easily en route. Here are the results of the race for the last few years -

http://runtofeedthehungry.com/results/default.htm

Hi folks. Thanks for all your kind words.

Can I get some feedback on what marathon shape people think I'm in based on Monday's workout? I felt tired at the end. I could have gone to 26 @ the same faster pace if I dug DEEP in the well. Rough estimates are fine. THANK YOU!

CMM- Great week post race. Holidays are tough, but I feel so proud when I don't overdo it then that it's worth not gorging myself...something to think about :).

RFX- good for you. Keep at it!

Force-same!

Slartizo- Good for you getting healthy with your lady!

NP- 110 miles...holy crap

Xenon- Another PR,woo! I persoanlly don't mind losing a tiny bit of ground on the uphill if it means I don't have to go anaerobic. I usually just pass them back on the downhill or flat. Also, I wonder if you go out a bit harder than usual since it's an XC race vs. road racing? Maybe that explains why you are a bit worse?

Garbage disposal- Great race. Re: weight, don't be a garbage disposal :). In all seriousness, you will feel markedly better when you eat healthy food consistently. Also, I find that the first few days of cutting calories a bit I do feel hungry. But if you can push through the initial discomfort your stomach shrinks and it starts to feel normal very quickly.

Raman- If you feel good, that's good!

Ghola- Nice week!

Reed- I consider that a good race; don't be too hard on yourself! Also, be careful with hammering too hard. If you think your fitness indicates you're faster, then I would recommend going with 2000 to go vs. the last mile that's your 25:50 right there. If you want to train harder, that's cool. Just avoid burnout :).

King- just listen to your body. You'll know when you're ready.

NJ- great week! I like your italics haha.

Kilt- great week. Just off the top of my head 2:45-50 by march might be a good goal.

Green- I like going by effort. Do you wear a GPS by any chance? I do, but I always check the splits at the end of the run and I seem to do better.

Printer- One day after the thread's posted isn't late :). Great week and race! Goals?

Green Bank - Nice consistency in your week. Can't argue with running every day! Do have a time you're looking to run at Boston?

RunnersFix - Sounds like a plan. Have you run a full yet or just focusing on the half/USA half championships? With the solid workouts you've been putting in and the mileage building up I'm curious to see what you hit.

GarbageDisposal - Thanks for the input. I Have a few times in my head that I'd like to run, but not putting them down just yet. I've been on/off for a couple of years so want to have some consistency in my training, get into solid shape, and have a half under my belt (Thanksgiving day) before I start predicting what I can run for my first marathon.

printer - Good week and congrats on the age group win in a pretty decent sized field. Will be following along to see how your build up goes towards the marathon.

Hey all. Quick post for now, but congrats to everyone who raced including renewed, screams and garbage and nice work by everyone else.

Next race: 11.2 CC race #4 6K

11.17 CC Championships 8k

47 miles for me this week. Notables ...

Wed: 4 mile tempo on trails/hills. Hot day (90) 25 minutes. (6:15s)

Sun: 6 x 1K on trails (slight hill) 90 secs rest - all about 5:30 pace.

The tempo was tough. It was a warm one and I was not feeling it. Was not able to negative split it like I usually do (6:30, 6:00. 6:10, 6:20). Oh well - good workout anyway. The 1K repeats were hard, but manageable. Could've done 6 more if I had to. Feel like my strength has gotten much better this last month or so. Gonna throw 2 more decent weeks @ it and then start to taper for mid Novemeber Championships. More later hopefully. Cheers everyone.