Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 9/1

Goal - PR in the 5K and Half this fall

Next Race - Half on 9/22

M – 6.5am / 11pm (17.5)

T – 7am / 12pm - Repetition workout (19)

W – 7.5am / 13pm (20.5)

T – Off (planned)

F – 9am easy (9)

S – 11am - 5k cross country race (11)

S – 20am easy (20)

Total Mileage – 97

Tuesday's repetition workout:

3 mile warm-up/3 mile cool down

12 x 400m with 400m recovery (~2:06):

66, 66, 66, 66, 66, 66, 66, 66, 66, 65, 65, 64

Saturday's 5k cross country race:

3 mile warm-up/5 mile cool down

5k - 16:08 (no idea what my splits were)

The race was nothing special, just ran for fun! Good thing too, cause my legs were dead. I think I could still feel the fatigue from my Tuesday workout.

Also, to the dude who was running along with me casually chatting when I felt terrible and asking what pace I wanted to run, and then insisting I respond after I ignored him the first time: Please don't ever do that again.

Hi xenon,

I know little about your training cycles. But here is my advice. As with all advice, take it with a grain of salt. I found a system that works well for me and I think this little bit may help you too. For me, progress required dedicating time to unwind/balance my life.

My opinion is that you aren't lacking motivation, far from it. From what I can "feel" of your posts, you are extremely dedicated. I can think of times where you are a few seconds off pace and explain to us why. I think this may speak more broadly about your personality, or it may be related to your passion for running. But, it seems to me that you need to rest a bit more, and also feel "free" enough to just go run, smell the flowers, enjoy a nice breeze every once in awhils. Seriously.I think you could use a good mental recharge. Think about this, when was the last time you saw something cool on your run and took the time to check it out vs. Pressing on. Try it out, your body willthank you :).

You have impressive times and your dedication is obvious. I just think it'd help to chill /balance every once in awhile. I was just like you, and the funny thing is I started to improve when I adopted this mentality after I stagnated for years.

You will be fine, but you already know that.

Stone Cutter: Nice job on the 5k! Those 2 mile repeats looked good as well.

King Hobbyjogger: Great volume. Very consistent tempo.

Slartzio: Nice volume with an off day in there.

Lopare: Good PR! Looks like you're well on your way to your goal.

Printer: Good week. I like the MP idea.

VF Runner: I can't stand the dreadmill either.

MS93: That was a great workout on Thursday! You'll be ready for C-Bus no doubt.

Napper: A day off is smart especially so close to a longer race.

Renewed Marathoner: Wow sounds fun. I camped and ran for a week earlier this summer and that's about all I could take.

Muebele: Hills always take me a while to adapt to as well, I try to get them in once a week because of it.

Elif: Nice mileage progression.

Xenon: Good to hear about your ferritin! You've had a long season and theres no shame in taking some downtime to recharge.

NJ Truth: Solid 400 session. That's some great volume for 6 days running.

Yeah, I'm honestly not the kind of person to enjoy "just running" or "just doing" anything. For example, I used to play Dance Dance Revolution competitively, and though there was a scene it was obviously nowhere near as huge as running. But I could never enjoy just playing the game. For me it was about improving my scores and competing in tournaments. I can't play anymore because everytime I do, I just realize how bad I am at it now that I'm out of practice.

Running to me is fun, but it's fun in a very specific way: It's fun to strive to improve, it's fun to succeed, and it's even fun to come off of a terrible failure only to pick yourself up and strive again. It's the journey that's fun to me. So I can only justify resting when I view it as productive. I have to honestly believing that backing off is what's going to help me train and race better.

It might help to explain that from when I was eight years old until I was eighteen years old, I was mentally conditioned to be a competitive swimmer, and it's really hard to change that mentality. Some parts of it are great: I never have any issue with motivation, I know I need to work hard, and I'm willing to put in as much work as it takes. Some parts are terrible: Whenever it makes sense to take a day off or take a break or go back a pace group in practice or not race or anything like that, there's this little voice in the back of my head that's like "you're just being a baby, suck it up."

Which is the hardest thing right now. Because I feel like I've become such a baby. If I can just drop out of a race like that, what's to stop me when I'm really hurting during a good race? It sets a premise I don't like.

I have a thread about running my first marathon in February, but this looks like an open training thread and figured I'd post here also.

Goal race: Half Marathon on 11/9 (first HM ever)

Goal time: Been advised by the wise veterans here not to have one but would like to shoot for around 1:35ish

Next race: 10k on 9/21. No goal time, just gonna run it and see what happens. Will be first 10k in probably 6 years (did 7 miles as first leg of Bourbon Chase Relay 2 years ago).

Sun. 8/25 - 7 mi. progression from 8:30ish to 7:00, w mile 6 at 6:41, last mile easy

Monday - off

Tuesday - 5 easy

Wednesday - 5x1k w 1 min. rest, w 1.5 wu and cd

Thursday - off (not on purpose, but life got in the way)

Friday - 5 easy

Sat. 8/31 - First race of any kind in 2 1/2 years, 21:35 5k (6 miles total)

Mileage for 8/25-8/31 -- 29

Sun. 9/1 - 8 miles in a little over 63 mins.

I've just decided in the last six weeks to begin bumping mileage and training seriously again. Been mostly running/jogging for general fitness for the past 5 years. In fact, I can't remember when I last had a training log or even kept up with mileage except in my head.

Scheduled for 35 this next week, with no workout other than maybe a progression run, with one off day. My primary focus is to build my mileage base and get my body used to staying on my feet for more than an hour, slowly building to 2-hour runs (or close) by end of October. I have a tendency to do too many hard runs or repetition workouts and need to do longer easy-moderate pace runs. Thanks guys and gal(s). This thread is encouraging and inspiring.

Slartzio - as you probably have noticed, I like alternating my weeks: Week 1) 2 quality workouts and a moderate long run, Week 2) 2 quality workouts, one of them built into a longer run. I really like having that "down" week of just two workouts, too - I feel like I get in some extra mental and physical recovery that week.

lopare - congrats on the 5K PR and the nice finishing kick! I am not a great heat runner either. You were smart to throw in the towel when the effort feels too hard. Hope your tendonitis issues go away with a little RICE.

printer - that Sunday session looks brutal. :) Good luck on the impending move and congrats on getting in the quality running you did.

VF Runner - I better not comment on the Distance Run either (as I said months ago, I refuse to call it by that other name). Until management changes, this will be the last year I do it, which is a shame given what a great course it offers.

And don't shortchange yourself on that 1:20ish. It's totally there. I have had a couple of blah weeks this cycle also and like you said, they suck when they happen and you are in that moment. But the weather will improve again, your family schedule will get back on track, and all those fitness gains will start to happen. It's there.

MS93 - fantastic week overall! I am a big fan of those alternating pace workouts, whether you alternate HMP/MP or MP/Moderate. You can get in tons of quality with longer sessions like that.

And speaking of tons of quality, wowzers on the marathon+ run on Sunday! I would love to average 3:58-4:00/km for my target marathon next spring!

napper - two very solid quality workouts and a long run. Hopefully your knee issue doesn't linger. Good luck in your half next week!

Renewed Marathoner - welcome back to society! And Holy Moses on the 22mi of MP running in 3 days!

I can't imagine running barefoot anywhere, let alone in a big city race. Thankfully for you, I think they took out the short cobblestone section of the Philly marathon a couple of years ago. Aside from that, I am guessing the Philly streets are just your everyday run-of-the-mill asphalt?

Muebele - the heat was rough these last couple of days. Thankfully it looks like it won't be as oppressive for your 5K, so maybe it won't be quite as ugly. :)

BTW, today was my first 5K in over 17 months. While I am happy with the finishing time and effort, I would rather forget again that type of race discomfort, even if it is brief. Took about 10 minutes for me to find my lungs afterward. :)

elif - new poster? And I am guessing you're a Daniels' follower? Either way, welcome aboard.

xenonscreams - sending you a virtual hug. Majorly bummed for you.

I have DNF'd twice in my life. Once because the temps in a marathon climbed above 82 and it was a two loop course and I got halfway and said F it, I am already at the finish line. The other time I dropped out of a HM due to injury. It is a humbling feeling walking away while so many others keep passing you by, carrying on. I can totally relate to what you are feeling now.

Unfortunately, they say the biggest lessons in life have to be lived personally, not vicariously (i.e., you have to learn them on your own, they can't be taught). Cry it out. Lick your wounds. Then get back up hopefully wiser for the wear. You know and we know that today wasn't a reflection of your true talent.

NJ truth - you were a machine on Tuesday with those 66s man! And that's a pretty decent XC time given all the miles your legs have in them recently. I have said it before, but when you get to the taper and sharpening period of your season, watch out!

Monday- 0

Tuesday- 16

Wednesday- 0

Thursday- 16

Friday- 4 (running)

Saturday- 22.. had a huge 1/2 mile climb at 15% grade.

Sunday- 0

Cycling is going well. Made my weight goal this week. Down to 181lbs 19 pounds in under two months. Will run more, definitely fell strong when I went for an easy four. I was nervous to try, but the form I had was perfect. Every joint and tendon was holding weight evenly and effectively. There were no trailing of legs or lameness. I am confident this is a step in the right direction. I was moving with a high gait, my legs hurt after but I know it can get better. Basically,I am not that forty year old hobbling his life away. I can run again in the future, and run fast. Biking is going better, progressively I can climb a lot better. Loved my 22 miler and the climb, but I burst my tire today so now I have to run more. Maybe it is a sign.

Hey again xenon,

I definitely understand!

Perhaps think of it this way. Resting is an integral component of your training you can't neglect :).

Best wishes!

To stone cutter. Thanks for tour input!

Oh also I should note it was Mp effort, not pace. I do all runs by feel then use the time as a gauge of where my fitness is for that effort. Sounds redundant, but I think its an important distinction.

Been MIA for a couple weeks. I will try and start posting next week. Been really busy with work, starting paramedic class, and a new girlfriend. Had to take some time and reset this past week.

Signed up for a tough trail marathon in december with 3500' climbing to get me motivated again.

The Stone Cutter wrote:

elif - new poster? And I am guessing you're a Daniels' follower? Either way, welcome aboard.

Thanks - I started reading the forums a few weeks back. I've been trying to develop a regimen from the Daniels/Lydiard material I've found. Before that, my runs were kind of scattershot and my progresion was iffy. I was running around 40 to 45 MPW early in the year but with no focus on what each workout actually meant to my goal.

I'm going to try to peak around 60 MPW. The adjustments feel great so far, but I'm only two weeks into the changes in training.

stone cutter: Nice week - really looking forward to seeing what you're capable of in the HM. And nice job on the 5k! Won't it be nice when we won't have to qualify things with "given the weather conditions"?

forcerunner: Thanks on the PR! Overall I am feeling very good about my fitness…save for this one persistent injury.

king hobbyjogger: Congrats on getting through a new high weekly mileage. That and a really solid tempo in adverse weather conditions.

Slartzio: I'm in the same boat on the weather. Looking forward to those cool fall mornings.

printer: Nice week. That's a long drive you made on Sunday - hope all goes well with the move.

VF Runner: It's that time of the year where the rest of the world starts to ramp up again…goodbye summer heat, hello fall fall craziness.

MS93: Looks like you had a great week. That's quite a workout on Thurs PM…no shame in cutting it a bit short.

napper: Good luck on the Chicago half…definitely take all the time off you need this week for the knee ahead of the race.

xenon: So sorry to hear about the DNF. The good news we (the running community) care about personal bests, not personal worsts. You've had a rough couple of weeks and I think the fact that you got out on the starting line in the first place is a huge testament to your character and spirit. Not knowing anything really about you or your training patterns, I'll humbly offer that maybe it's time to give yourself a schedule of "rest training" to recover from the season and all you've been facing recently. I will say this…even before I was posting here, and just reading, I always looked forward to hearing about your weeks because it's so obvious how dedicated and driven you are, and it's really inspiring. I wish you the best in getting over the hump and back to 100%.

NJ Truth: That is some insane consistency on the 400s.

Charlie Freak: I remember reading your thread earlier this week and thinking that you should chime in here. Glad you decided to. You're hoping to do a marathon in the spring, right?

Diesel: Stoked to hear that your 4 miler went well. Hoping to hear about many more good runs in the near future.

elif: Welcome! If you're in search of training materials and new to LRC, I would recommend checking out some of the Hadd training threads, if you haven't already. The theories maybe aren't for everyone, but I think there's some very good stuff in there that specifically applies to developing or improving upon a base level of fitness.

löpare wrote:

Charlie Freak: I remember reading your thread earlier this week and thinking that you should chime in here. Glad you decided to. You're hoping to do a marathon in the spring, right?

Thanks, and that's correct. After some wise advice from posters and much thought, I decided the December date was too ambitious and I risked injury, disappointment or both. I'm focusing short term on the HM in November, then training through the winter for a Feb. 16 marathon. Might run a 15k or longer race between November and February, but mostly just putting miles on the legs Looking forward to sharing as I go.

The Stone Cutter - Glad to see your plan coming together at exactly the right time and great time on that 5k in these conditions! They screwed up my corral for the race next weekend, but assuming it gets fixed would at least be great to say hello and put a name to the face before the race. Very good week and your HMP definitely seems to be in that sub 6 range

forcerunner - Great job on that Thursday workout, especially that 1k at the end.

King hobbyjogger - Awesome! highest mileage week ever with runs of 15, 12 and and 24 is fantastic! That tempo run is solid and you are looking good for Chicago.

Slartzio - nice week, hopefully this heat subsides for all of us:)

löpare - I feel your pain but stick with the icing/rolling /stretching routine. If you have high Achilles pain, KT tape has worked well for me in the past. I hope it turns better for you this week.

printer - I should comment on your runs but good lord, that drive is insane and trumps any run! I hope the move went well.

VF Runner -

MS 93 - Fantastic job on that Thurs workout!

napper - Good luck in the half and I hope your knee is on the mend.

Renewed Marathoner - I cant speak to barefoot running but I did Philly full last year and it was fairly clean streets. I dont recall any trash, debris, off trail, etc although cant imagine running on city streets as dirty as Philly barefoot:) Living away from the daily grind of technology does sound pretty sweet.

Muebele - I think you picked a good week to get back into the 6 day thing--hopefully the heat breaks for us this week.

elif - nice job on those 400s--was that 12 400s total?

xenonsceams - dont beat yourself up over a DNF. I never ran at your level but can tell you that it's not worth it. Once you get back to 100% healthy you'll be kicking some a$$ out there:)

NJ Truth - I wish I could use the words "for fun" & 16:08 in the same sentence. Man you are crushing it.

Charlie Freak - Welcome to the threadde week and great job on the 5k Saturday--hopefully it felt good to participate in an organized race.

Charlie Freak wrote:

löpare wrote:

Charlie Freak: I remember reading your thread earlier this week and thinking that you should chime in here. Glad you decided to. You're hoping to do a marathon in the spring, right?

Thanks, and that's correct. After some wise advice from posters and much thought, I decided the December date was too ambitious and I risked injury, disappointment or both. I'm focusing short term on the HM in November, then training through the winter for a Feb. 16 marathon. Might run a 15k or longer race between November and February, but mostly just putting miles on the legs Looking forward to sharing as I go.

I think that the advice that was given in the other thread is sound, and it sounds like you're approaching this correctly. Everyone's different, but my limited experience has been that the more gradual the approach, the better. Looking forward to seeing your progression.

Sorry for the late posting, work got the best of me last week and then I spent one last weekend at the NJ shore with my family before closing down the in-laws house for the summer.

I don't want to start with the self loathing but a pretty depressing week all around and it sounds like I am in a similar boat to a few of you guys/gals. My motivation and diet goes to hell in a hand basket when I'm injured and such was the case this week. Work is crazy which piles on but hopefully I'm slowly turning the corner on my left shin (right shin was earlier this summer)

I think I've officially ruled out a Chicago PR and I will train through it for Savannah in Nov. I dont know if I should "reset" the Daniels Plan and train towards Savannah in November or just keep original plan with little taper and then do a full taper for Savannah. I'm leaning towards trying to keep foot on gas through Chicago on current plan and then do a 2-3 week taper for Savannah. Any thoughts?

YTD: 2,184.7

Weekly: 29.1 (land running counted only)

M: 60 minutes aqua jogging, 8x5 min efforts AM, 60 minutes aqua jogging with 10x1 min pickups PM, 10 minutes core

T: 45 min elliptical - travel for work

W: 6 E @ 7:37 (shin felt OK but could not have run any faster without pain)

R: 70 min aqua jogging (ladder set, 400,800,1200,1600,1200,800,400), p90x Ab Ripper

F: 60 min aqua jogging, 4 E @ 7:19

S: 7 E @ 7:13. Shin felt ok but not at the end

S: 12 E @ 7:19. hot & humid, shin couldn't take any faster pace

Basically I'm at a point where I need to try to stay on top of stretching, rolling and hope the shin gets better on its own. It doesn't feel like it's getting any worse but definitely hurts at faster paces. Hopefully this is week I turn the corner.

@löpare I'm starting the habit of sinking my feet in an ice water bucket for 10 min, after my long run. It really does work, and I feel that it is better than just applying ice on the skin, especially for the foot/ankle area.

@MS93 wow, VERY impressive week

@napper good luck with your half!

@renewed marathoner are you racing that half all out? Shouldn't it be more like 1:25/2:59?

@Nj truth Solid week

@stonecutter Exactly. I feel I'm hitting those 2 days harder and I recover better with an extra day in between. I was always a bit intimidated by doing 4/5 miles as warm up and cool down but now I think that's a great new stimulus to break my plateau eventually.

@forcerunner If you have to hold back the pace on your long run, at the end of a week of new higher mileage, it probably means that you are doing it right and not over reaching.

Cmm thanks for the advice.

Slartizo You are right about equivalent times. I am going to run the half all out, but I will train right through it. I'll run the full fresh. I will take a hard look at my half performance to see if I should reassess my goal though! Thanks for your input!

Next race: Late Sept or early October 5K CC race #2

45 miles this week in hot/humid conditions. I don't know how some of you tough it out all summer in this type of shi#! It sure does take a lot out of me and slows down recovery tremendously.

My only hard workout was 14 minutes of pickups on a trail run with 2 minutes rest in between 2 minute, 3, 4, 3, and 2 minute hard efforts. Averaged about 5:40/mile pace - 1st 8 minutes uphill about 150 ft; last 6 minutes back down - all on rocky, twisty and turny terrain. Had some other decent 7-10 mile runs @ around 7:30 pace that became medium + efforts simply because of the heat. Looking back @ my logs, the 45 miles is the highest week for me since I started back a few years ago, although I have had a lot of 35-40 weeks. Will try and hit 45-50 this week with at least one day of intervals and perhaps a tempo run.

Looks like a solid week of training/racing for most of you. Will try and loop back later this week with comments, but work is crazy. Cheers.