A lot of old guys WERE pretty fast

ssm,

Thanks for the info. I'll spend a lot of time checking it out. I love results.

I'm still not sure about the apples and oranges thing. But, I must admit that I'm not as sharp as I once was.

I came to the sport in 1968 and started racing in 1972. Higdon along with Fred Wilt were the first running authors I read. I knew about you Orville because of an article in a Runners World booklet on training that talked about the different training methods you did over the years before you finally ran under 2:30 for the marathon. It was interesting and it influenced my training throughout the 1970's and 80's. Less speed work, 60-75 mpw and eventually becoming a local class runner.

The thing I was aware of was the competitiveness of the average runner. Less fun runners and more competitors.

That has changed in the SF Bay Area. Now it more participants versus competitors. There is still a very competitive element around but the depth simply isn't at the same level and depth.

We didn't pay big entry fees, we didn't get prize money. On occasion we won gear which was okay. I won a fairly big 5k race in the city and won a beer mug. I still have it.

ssm,

I thought about the apples and oranges argument. If you're saying that PA races are apples and all other local races are oranges, I see your point.

However, my initial intention was to show the younger runners on this site that 'old guys' aren't exaggerating their times when talking about the 'old days.' (That's why I dug up those 'old results' from those three Cal 10's)

Also, I wanted to point out the depth of races in the 80's, like the Cal Ten, Wharf to Wharf and The Mercury News 10K.

31% of the '81 field broke a 6 min pace for 10 miles

41% of the '83 field broke a 6 min pace for 10 miles

'81 had 627 finishers, '83 had 820 finishers.

I don't think there's any race today (even a 5K or 10K) that would have that high of percentage breaking a 6 min pace.

Racing was changing very quicky in the 1960s. The general thinking was that when track racers began to race marathons times got faster. In 1962 my 2 2:32 marathons, including one in Boston placing me 5th, were bettered on certified courses by only 4 runners on the Continent for the year and yet 13 runners ran faster in Boston in 1964 and that included 5 from Canada. With another 2:32 in 1971 and I slipped to 25th place in Boston. No women ran Boston until 1966 but the 60s prepared the sport for Frank Shorter and the boom of the 1970s.

I was thinking of the changes in the sport on my walk this morning. Most of the joggers/runners I saw were women.

By the way I just learned from the current AARP Bulletin of studies showing that exercise helps keep "cognitive abilities sharp" and "slashes your lifetime risk of Alzheimer's in half and your risk of general dementia by 60 percent"!!!!

I have 2 friends who played football in high school, the Canadian did not even play in College, who have just started to suffer brain problems attributed to blows to the head way back then.

(what's happened to the curser here?? I'm having to copy paste everything from notepad on to here!!!!!)

anyhow I see as well the majority of jogger/runners out in the early mornings are women. Also reasuring to see how continuing arobic activity does indeed stave off old age ravages like Alzheimers & Dementia.

I graduated around that time, and I was an average HS runner. I could run 10 miles under 60 minutes back then. It was much more common then to have average runners run what would be considered above average times today.