Ridiculous race. Three quarters of that field had no chance in a kicker's race. They night as well DNS'd.
I think the men's race was different in that at least three quarters of that field had a legitimate shot if their tactics (i.e. positioning) was good during the race.
Why was the women's 1500m so slow?
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faux 1500 wrote:
Why not? Why run 1500 when you can jog 11 and run 4?
Because Aregawi, Dibaba and Kipyegon can all jog faster than the Amarycains can run. The average WC bronze since 2000 is 4:03, and the slowest was 4:05. If you want a medal, you should send someone with a lot of experience running that fast. But the Rowbury's and Simpson's are not gonna be there, because you'd rather send a long shot team of kickers with 4:03/4:04+ PR's, because a sit and kick trials is good enough for you. And if someone goes 4 flat, which Aregawi could do with a weight vest, you will cry and moan but have noone to blame but yourself.
The US should focus first on sending its best prospects. The first choices should be the ones with consistent top performances, then A standard, and finally trials. People criticize East Africans for leaving their best at home, but the US does it just as often. It's particularly stupid to send a B athlete when you already have three A's. -
Bad Wigins wrote:
Because Aregawi, Dibaba and Kipyegon can all jog faster than the Amarycains can run. The average WC bronze since 2000 is 4:03, and the slowest was 4:05. If you want a medal, you should send someone with a lot of experience running that fast. But the Rowbury's and Simpson's are not gonna be there, because you'd rather send a long shot team of kickers with 4:03/4:04+ PR's, because a sit and kick trials is good enough for you. And if someone goes 4 flat, which Aregawi could do with a weight vest, you will cry and moan but have noone to blame but yourself.
The US should focus first on sending its best prospects. The first choices should be the ones with consistent top performances, then A standard, and finally trials. People criticize East Africans for leaving their best at home, but the US does it just as often. It's particularly stupid to send a B athlete when you already have three A's.
Why won't Simpson be there? And the winner today, Moser, has the fastest time of any American except Simpson.
Simpson, Moser, and Cain are the best milers we have this year - along with Martinez. Those 3 have performed consistently all season - what someone did last year is not relevant. -
its [sic] 100F + on the track
OK. It was hot. Why wasn't iced tea served for competitors during this race? -
Bad Wigins wrote:
faux 1500 wrote:
Why not? Why run 1500 when you can jog 11 and run 4?
Because Aregawi, Dibaba and Kipyegon can all jog faster than the Amarycains can run. The average WC bronze since 2000 is 4:03, and the slowest was 4:05. If you want a medal, you should send someone with a lot of experience running that fast. But the Rowbury's and Simpson's are not gonna be there, because you'd rather send a long shot team of kickers with 4:03/4:04+ PR's, because a sit and kick trials is good enough for you. And if someone goes 4 flat, which Aregawi could do with a weight vest, you will cry and moan but have noone to blame but yourself.
The US should focus first on sending its best prospects. The first choices should be the ones with consistent top performances, then A standard, and finally trials. People criticize East Africans for leaving their best at home, but the US does it just as often. It's particularly stupid to send a B athlete when you already have three A's.
I agree 100 percent. The major problem is the US college and national meets are based on places, not time, which teaches runners to run as slow as possible. The ones who run the slowest in the heats, and qualify, supposedly have the most energy conserved for the finals, which in fact is the case.
However if all prelims and semis were decided solely by TIME, then that would NOT be the case. All the times would be much faster, as happens in swimming where records keep being bettered year after year. Running for time is PROGRESSIVE, whereas running for place is redundant. -
The point is that the fastest runner ALWAYS WINS, so the objective should be to run the fastest race that is possible.
This way the duel objectives can be met, running one's best, and placing the highest based on one's capabilities, not tossing one's ability in the trash and partaking of a cr/pshoot. -
banana wrote:
Why won't Simpson be there? And the winner today, Moser, has the fastest time of any American except Simpson.
Simpson, Moser, and Cain are the best milers we have this year - along with Martinez. Those 3 have performed consistently all season - what someone did last year is not relevant.
Simpson's an alternate if McGee gets the B.
Moser is legit, but Cain has run one fast 1500 this season, and placed second to another American in that race. That's neither best nor consistent.
Of course what they did last year is relevant. Look at Manzano. He runs top 3 in important races. He got the A standard too. Top that, anyone this year! He should have automatically been on the team, trials or not.
If Simpson doesn't run in Moscow, it will be a disgrace to the USATF. -
J.R. wrote:
I agree 100 percent. The major problem is the US college and national meets are based on places, not time, which teaches runners to run as slow as possible. The ones who run the slowest in the heats, and qualify, supposedly have the most energy conserved for the finals, which in fact is the case.
However if all prelims and semis were decided solely by TIME, then that would NOT be the case. All the times would be much faster, as happens in swimming where records keep being bettered year after year. Running for time is PROGRESSIVE, whereas running for place is redundant.
So you don't like our team with Simpson, Moser, Cain, and either McGee or Rowbury. Who would you send instead? Uceny? The only other runner that is good enough to possibly replace one of our top 3 is Martinez, who decided not to run.
Really, McGee is the only surprise here. I think the rest of the team would have been the same regardless of the pace.
And really, Rowbury was certainly in position but just faded. So why do you think she should go in place of McGee? -
Everyone is a coward now days. They handed this race to a freakin high schooler. Why do people love Pre (our favorite 4th place finisher)? Because he took it out!
I respect tactics but this kind of strategy is rediculous. The took it our harder the first 800 of the 2008 olympic marathon, in worse conditions. -
I believe Jenny Simpson has an exemption because she was the 2011 World Champion at 1500m. She will be in Moscow unless she is injured.
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Razor burn
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Bad Wigins wrote:
Simpson's an alternate if McGee gets the B.
Moser is legit, but Cain has run one fast 1500 this season, and placed second to another American in that race. That's neither best nor consistent.
Of course what they did last year is relevant. Look at Manzano. He runs top 3 in important races. He got the A standard too. Top that, anyone this year! He should have automatically been on the team, trials or not.
If Simpson doesn't run in Moscow, it will be a disgrace to the USATF.
As defending champion Simpson has auto entry. It doesn't matter what McGee does. If McGee does not get the B then Rowbury goes.
As far as Cain, she has run sub 2 this year, is the U.S. indoor champ, and has the fastest indoor mile time. That seems pretty consistent. More importantly, she is still improving rapidly. It is likely she is capably of 4 in the right race, and who knows what she will do in Moscow.
But if not Cain, who would you send instead? -
banana wrote:
So you don't like our team with Simpson, Moser, Cain, and either McGee or Rowbury. Who would you send instead? Uceny? The only other runner that is good enough to possibly replace one of our top 3 is Martinez, who decided not to run.
Really, McGee is the only surprise here. I think the rest of the team would have been the same regardless of the pace.
And really, Rowbury was certainly in position but just faded. So why do you think she should go in place of McGee?
No, I don't, because it was a farce of a race. Sure, the 3 ran the best in the race, and maybe that would have been the case had the race been fast all the way, and probably so. But that is mostly not the case in races of this type.
This race was like you indicated "who do you 'think' should go", not who ran the fastest quality race and deserves to go based on performance standards, as is done in swimming and other sports.
Can you imagine if swimming was done based on place... yikes... it would be a farce, which is what the U.S. running system is that is based on placings. -
Simpson is going. Moser and Cain are going. Cory McGee will go if she meets the "A". Otherwise, Shannon Rowbury will go. These are our rules -- rules that can be changed for 2015.
The USA will send four for the W1500. It is then up to them to represent themselves well, represent the sport well and the country that sends them -- or not. They know this.
Salazar knows how to game the system in the USA and he has instructed two of these four how to do it. So, that's what they do. You have a coach and you must trust that coach or move on. Maybe Salazar gave Moser and Cain a Plan B if the race unfolded at a faster pace. If others at the WC figure out a way of dealing with 2 or 3 or 4 of these four, so be it.
I'm not saying I was enthralled with the W1500 Final today. I thought it stunk but it was no surprise. Now they will move on. -
McGee is incredibly attractive.
that is all. -
Pre didn't "take it out" @ '72 Oly games. He didn't take the lead until after ~9:20 transpired, which by some peanut gallery people thought was too late, and that turned out to be the case.
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faux 1500 wrote:
Simpson is going. Moser and Cain are going. Cory McGee will go if she meets the "A". Otherwise, Shannon Rowbury will go. These are our rules -- rules that can be changed for 2015.
McGee only needs the "B" to go. -
What happened to Mackey? McGee deserves congrats but didn't make NCAA indoor finals and got spanked in outdoors. Anderson where were you. Rowbury must have the Oly hangover. If Coburn couldn't Steeple she should have run the 1500. She isn't afraid to lead and is the Indoor mile champ and about 4:06 for the 1500. And Sarah B you don't have the 400 speed so why not push the pace early.
That was a dud race -
DaClones wrote:
McGee is incredibly attractive.
that is all.
http://www.gatorzone.com/trackfield/women/bios.php?year=2012&player_id=111
yes she is. -
asdf80- wrote:
Fans should get their money back...........
Yeah. The fans only got to see 4 woman ARs.
