Serious: why are most runners so slow?

I'll point out a couple obvious things.

1. Your friend has little talent for running based on what you are saying.

2. If you never practice running faster than 10 minutes you will probably have a problem running faster than 10 minutes.

That adds up to me.

Ho Hum wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

This is complete nonsense. Most people simply can not run that fast, no matter how much they train or how thin they are.

If we're talking about able bodied men, most would be capable of sub-20 with consistent, sustained training at some point in their lives. The fact that very few people actually do this has no bearing on their ability to do it.

No way. There are already too many tests on this. My daughter's CC team has scores of senior guys who have been running since 7th grade who can't even come close to 20:00 for 5k. They are young and fit and able bodied and supposedly better runners than the average at the school, and yet they can't break 20 minutes. Could a couple of them do so if they continued beyond HS? Probably.

Most people can't...no way, no how.

I have a brother who was a sprinter in highschool, and he was lean and fit and could sprint decently fast...there's no way on God's green earth he could train himself now or ever to run a 5k in 20:00, and he's a better physical specimen than most.

MOST people simply do not have the physical tools to be able to do so no matter what training you give them.

Perhaps they are just training wrong. Is that so impossible?

So, if I'm able to break 20 min after 1 year of running at age 30 with bad ankles and bad knees is that a sign that genetics do play a role in running ability?

ataglance. wrote:

youngcoach wrote:

anyone should be able to run a sub 20 min 5k performance. lose the weight and with proper guidance it can happen.

Wow how young of a coach are you 15? Because nobody that's been around the sport for very long would believe that. Nooooo way just anyone can run below a 20 min 5k. You've spent too much time with fast people, your views are skewed. It's like asking a trust fund kid what they think the typical family earns a year.

Very nice post ataglance. Correct too.

nordicmama wrote:

People simply don't like discomfort. Running fast starts to hurt, so their body sends them a message of pain, and then they think "Something is wrong, because this doesn't feel good. I'd better slow down now." A true athlete will push through that because of his performance goals. I agree that your friend probably doesn't care at all about how fast he is, so pushing through doesn't occur to him.

Wishful thinking on your part. Go sit on your butt for a year with no training and then go see if you can run a mile close to your PR on a track...you should just be able to "push through the pain" right? Some people just have more talent...period.

When some kid busts his a$$ to run 5:58 for the 1600 in high school, and some other kid busts his a$$ to run 4:19, the pain they feel is the same. The great athletes don't just push through the pain more than the others...if that were true, then those people who have that disorder where they don't feel ANY pain would be the best distance runners in the world...they aren't.

Yes. Proper training at some point hits the Law of Diminishing Returns. If you can't break 20 minutes (or really, some of them can't break 24 minutes) by age 18 after running up to 60 MPW in the summers, and you've been at it since the 7th grade, you're likely not going to be able to do it, and improper training isn't the culprit.

There's a reason why some guys run the 400...that's what they are equipped to run.

Flagpole wrote:

jdjdj wrote:

Perhaps they are just training wrong. Is that so impossible?

Yes. Proper training at some point hits the Law of Diminishing Returns. If you can't break 20 minutes (or really, some of them can't break 24 minutes) by age 18 after running up to 60 MPW in the summers, and you've been at it since the 7th grade, you're likely not going to be able to do it, and improper training isn't the culprit.

There's a reason why some guys run the 400...that's what they are equipped to run.

Perhaps its not as simple as just running 60mpw. Isn't it possible that 60mpw is not the correct type of training for some people? So doing it for 1 year or 5 years isn't going to make a difference.

This thread has officially been Flagpoled.

I think some people have trouble getting through the initial stages of training without getting hurt. It takes a while for connective tissue to strengthen to the point where one can take much training, and a lot of people get into too quick and get hurt, or get some aches and pains and figure hey can't do much running without getting hurt.

Also most non-runners don't know how to train. Sure you run, but how much? How fast? We all have a good idea about this, but I don't think it is as intuitively obvious as some of you think.

Also, related to the point above, people have a skewed perspective of what constitutes a large amount of running. If you tell most people you run five miles every day they will think you are some sort of super-athlete.

Precious Roy wrote:

I also have a perfect runner's build, except for low archers.

Have you tried raising their bows?

Yes and no. Yes some people have more running talent but being able to push yourself to your limits is a type of talent as well. Scientific studies have shown that people have different levels of pain tolerance and that has an impact on athletic performance. It's not the biggest factor but it is a factor.

Where has science shown that people have different pain tolerances?

htcht wrote:

Where has science shown that people have different pain tolerances?

There is a ton of research on this (google pain tolerance) but here is a really interesting one. Pain sensitivity apparently is related to a certain gene variant that is much more common in redheads.

Yeah but wrote:

htcht wrote:

Where has science shown that people have different pain tolerances?

There is a ton of research on this (google pain tolerance) but here is a really interesting one. Pain sensitivity apparently is related to a certain gene variant that is much more common in redheads.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/the-pain-of-being-a-redhead/

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that article had nothing to do with pain tolerance. It was about hair color and the effectiveness of pain blockers.

Peace Out wrote:

Honestly: most runners don't care about how fast they are. My sister is currently running about 50 miles per week and she'd be lucky to break 4:30 for a marathon (also carrying extra weight because she thinks it's OK to eat everything in sight because she runs almost every day). She wants us all to come watch her ultra in a few weeks, but I feel like I'd be sitting out there for hours just to see her WALK by, even on the flat parts. I think she is typical of many. She said she hates speedwork because it's too hard. So there ya go.

+1

Exactly. Your average runner doesn't care about speed, or know much about it. Many of the people I encounter at local road races think i'm Olympian fast, and I'm nowhere near that. I know many women who run more than I do. They'll enter 5-6 marathons a year because they love the rewards of running, the connections, and the atmosphere of the races. Not everyone wants to run fast, they just want to run.

htcht wrote:

Yeah but wrote:

There is a ton of research on this (google pain tolerance) but here is a really interesting one. Pain sensitivity apparently is related to a certain gene variant that is much more common in redheads.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/the-pain-of-being-a-redhead/

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that article had nothing to do with pain tolerance. It was about hair color and the effectiveness of pain blockers.

It's not clear from the NY Times article but if you follow the link from there to the research article it indicates that redheads are more sensitive to certain types of pain even when no pain blockers were given.

If you don't think willingness to accept discomfort (not pain really, since pain should be a warning) is a factor, hang around the slower half of an ordinary xc team for a while. You'll hear enough complaining and whining to last you a life time. Some girls in particular have to be taught that it really is OK if it doesn't feel perfectly good when they run. The slightest twinge or side stitch and they slow down. If they get winded, they suspect asthma.

Some boys have to learn that same lesson, but probably fewer since more boys than girls compete with each other in running, climbing and kickball etc. on the playground when they're little and learn to push themselves then so as not to be the rotten egg. Meanwhile, the non-tomboy girls are spending that time talking, playing Barbies, or other imaginative games and practice physical discomfort less.

Also, some people simply don't have a competitive bone in their bodies and could care less about winning or improving. They want running to be fun and low stress I don't understand those people, but they exist.

Flagpole wrote: If you can't break 20 minutes (or really, some of them can't break 24 minutes) by age 18 after running up to 60 MPW in the summers, and you've been at it since the 7th grade, you're likely not going to be able to do it, and improper training isn't the culprit.

There's a reason why some guys run the 400...that's what they are equipped to run.

I would have to see videotapes of someone running 60 miles per week for five years to believe that there is a teenaged human being who isn't obese, suffering from a serious medical condition, or disabled by an orthopedic injury/defect who could train like that and not break 20 for 5k